What is the correct performance date of this Sister Ray ?

[Waldo1970]

Velvet Underground 45th Anniversary Edition 3rd Album 2014 Disc 6

Dear VU friends,

don?t own box set yet, but heard this SR on spotify already
My question to the Forum:
According to information on many web pages it is stated that the SR of disc 6 has been recorded on November 26 + 27, 1969 The Matrix San Francisco and that it is a different source mix of a performance which did appear on the Quine Tapes already
so far so good
I compared both versions carefully. Yes, the 38:00 SR of The Quine Tapes Disc Two is definitely of the same origin and from the same performance, BUT according to the liner notes on my Quine Tapes 3 cd box set this SR is from December 3, 1969 (with John Cale !) and not from November 26 + 27, 1969 ????
What is correct ? Can anybody explain ?

[Kill Mick]

With John Cale? WTF?! Do the Quine Tapes liner notes really say that (I don't own a copy)?

[bradski]

The Quine cd set does give '12-3-69' as the date on the box and on the cd 2 sleeve. Confusingly it also gives 'December 1st 1969' in the booklet.
It doesn't say Cale is performing - it merely credits him as co-writer.

I imagine the Dec. date is a mistake (although Olivier's page does say the 38' SR recorded @ the Matrix was 3rd Dec).

[lurid]

I suspect Olivier's info came from the Quine CD set liner notes and that Quine's recordkeeping was imperfect.

The Quine cd set does give '12-3-69' as the date on the box and on the cd 2 sleeve. Confusingly it also gives 'December 1st 1969' in the booklet.
It doesn't say Cale is performing - it merely credits him as co-writer.

I imagine the Dec. date is a mistake (although Olivier's page does say the 38' SR recorded @ the Matrix was 3rd Dec).

[hkmartin]

According to this, Bukka White played the Matrix on Dec. 1 - 3, 1969, with Charlie Cocker.
http://bluestourdatabase.com/artists/bukka-white

[hkmartin]

Velvet Underground (December 1-3, 1969): There has always been some question regarding the validity of the Velvet Underground shows at the Matrix on December 1, 1969 through December 3. Little substantiating evidence had existed that the shows actually took place - aside from the regular inclusion of recordings on tape lists. Research in to the contemporary press have now identified that Bukka White and Charlie Cockey played the Matrix on those three nights. As such, the entry has been changed to include White and Cockey as replacing the Velvet Underground. The evidence of a contemporary newspaper listing for any show is generally more plausible than any posters or handbills that would have been printed weeks before the show.

http://www.chickenonaunicycle.com/Matrix%20Shows.htm

[Waldo1970]

Thank you all for your investigation and for clearing up this matter.

I thing taking hkmartin's posting under consideration, it is almost certain that there were no VU shows from dec 1-3 1969 in the Matrix and consequently there must be a mistake in the liner notes of the Quine tape 3 cd boc set (it's also clear that John Cale no longer was a member of the band at this time, sorry for having created this confusion).

[olandem]

There is an uncirculated Velvet Underground tape (Scotch MAGNETIC TAPE 290 5 INCH REEL TRIPLE LENGTH), which has clearly handwritten on the box:

THE VELVET UNDERGROUND
at the Matrix
San Francisco
December 3, 1969

Tracklisting is written on the back, and the second set ends with "Sister Ray".

Now which date is the correct one, I just don't know. Maybe the VU gig at the Matrix was cancelled for Dec. 1-2, and they were there on Dec. 3, who knows?

[bobbydriver]

We know that Quine taped a bunch of shows and then edited them down to the performances he wanted to keep - so it's most likely that the VU did play the Matrix on 3rd Dec, but he misdated the version of SR that he kept