The Matrix Tapes - COMING SOON

For discussion of all aspects of the New York legends.
rnranimal
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Re: The Matrix Tapes - COMING SOON

Post by rnranimal » 30 Nov 2015 17:34

bobbydriver wrote:
rnranimal wrote: I don't think it can be accurate that these come from two dates but are just highlights. I think the set comes from numerous dates. Also, on the hoffman forum, it was pointed out that the 27th date wasn't even listed on the ad for the shows.
Also pointed out on Hoffman that 27th was Thanksgiving. Would the venue have been open on Thanksgiving? Would the band have stayed out on the West Coast or gone home to their families for a few days? Then would they have come back out a few days later for another 3 dates Dec 1-3rd? It's all a puzzle for sure

I think the only thing we can be certain of is that the songs don't just come from the dates 26/27th
The setlists from the uncirculated 3rd Dec reels
http://olivier.landemaine.free.fr/vu/li ... erf69.html
show that they played two totally different sets per night, whereas the 4 "sets" on the Matrix box are littered with repetition. Also coincidentally each "set" is circa 70 minutes and fits conveniently on a CD
Exactly.

There's also this.


November 11, 1969
Unknown location, San Francisco, California

Tape: audience recording by Robert Quine. Source: Dispatches From The Dream Factory - Disc 3 (1-2).

Waiting For The Man (6:16)
[cut] White Light/ White Heat (5:45)
Quine handed over a cassette with the two songs, and ONLY these two songs, that was was dated 11/11/69. The legend goes that the November 11 performance was an outdoor gig, maybe by the beach South of San Francisco. However White Light/White Heat is edited from an audience recording version of the track available on 1969 Velvet Underground Live. So the "unknown location" is probably The Matrix.


I think there's a real good chance The Matrix Tapes include some performances from the 11/11-17 stay as well as later dates.

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PhantomRaspberryBlower
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Re: The Matrix Tapes - COMING SOON

Post by PhantomRaspberryBlower » 30 Nov 2015 18:25

rnranimal wrote: I think there's a real good chance The Matrix Tapes include some performances from the 11/11-17 stay as well as later dates.
I'm inclined to agree, including the 3rd Dec date for Sister Ray*. I wonder why the pretence, though? Did they think the box would sell more copies if they pinned all the tracks to 2 dates only?


* Despite the doubt cast by Olivier. It sure would be groovy to check out that uncirculated tape he lists.

rnranimal
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Re: The Matrix Tapes - COMING SOON

Post by rnranimal » 30 Nov 2015 20:53

PhantomRaspberryBlower wrote:
rnranimal wrote: I think there's a real good chance The Matrix Tapes include some performances from the 11/11-17 stay as well as later dates.
I'm inclined to agree, including the 3rd Dec date for Sister Ray*. I wonder why the pretence, though? Did they think the box would sell more copies if they pinned all the tracks to 2 dates only?


* Despite the doubt cast by Olivier. It sure would be groovy to check out that uncirculated tape he lists.
If I'm going with a completely innocent mistake guess, I'm thinking those were simply the only dates written anywhere on or with the tapes and so that's what they used. Or if I'm thinking along the lines of them being a little deceitful, maybe they knew these probably weren't only from two dates, but felt giving just two dates would make it appear more like these were full sets. It's tough to say. I find it odd there are no pics of tape boxes or sheets in the liners.

Same with the 3rd album box. No box for the so called vintage mono promo version is to be seen, but they show all kinds of other tape boxes and recordings sheets in these sets. I'm very skeptical that mono version was something vintage and not newly created. I don't care, because to me a vintage fold down is equally as worthless as a modern one, but I would be pretty disappointed to discover they weren't being truthful.

Does anyone know anything else about this other Matrix audience tape? How it became known to exist? Who has it?

sb3344
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Re: The Matrix Tapes - COMING SOON

Post by sb3344 » 30 Nov 2015 21:51

http://thevelvetundergroundbootlegslyoko.blogspot.ca/

Is this tape we are all talking about on this page, listed as rehearsals?

hkmartin
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Re: The Matrix Tapes - COMING SOON

Post by hkmartin » 01 Dec 2015 02:01

I don't know how reliable this is, but this purports to be a comprehensive list of every show at the Matrix. If the Velvets really played on Thanksgiving of 1969, it looks like this was not the only time the Matrix had a show on Thanksgiving.

http://www.chickenonaunicycle.com/Matrix%20Shows.htm

rnranimal
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Re: The Matrix Tapes - COMING SOON

Post by rnranimal » 01 Dec 2015 03:07

sb3344 wrote:http://thevelvetundergroundbootlegslyoko.blogspot.ca/

Is this tape we are all talking about on this page, listed as rehearsals?
Those are leftovers from Quine's Tapes which weren't used for the official set, but came out on bootleg. There's a full show (2 sets) recorded by someone else in the audience and is labeled 12/3/69. That's all I know about it.

bobbydriver
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Re: The Matrix Tapes - COMING SOON

Post by bobbydriver » 01 Dec 2015 09:39

hkmartin wrote:I don't know how reliable this is, but this purports to be a comprehensive list of every show at the Matrix. If the Velvets really played on Thanksgiving of 1969, it looks like this was not the only time the Matrix had a show on Thanksgiving.

http://www.chickenonaunicycle.com/Matrix%20Shows.htm
Ah good find. The advert in the SF Chronicle appeared on the monday saying they were playing from Monday to Wednesday. It seems equally unfathomable that they would have added a 4th date on Thanksgiving right at the last minute

What I'd love to do with these Matrix recordings is have some sort of audio forensics expert check them out. I'm pretty sure that they could work out which tracks in each of the "sets" were recorded at the same time/with the same mike set up/room ambience etc

TeddyB
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Re: The Matrix Tapes - COMING SOON

Post by TeddyB » 02 Dec 2015 09:15

Perhaps, but that full listing of the history of Matrix appearances shows the Velvets appearing on that Thanksgiving and cancelling December 3rd.

rnranimal
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Re: The Matrix Tapes - COMING SOON

Post by rnranimal » 02 Dec 2015 18:37

bobbydriver wrote:
hkmartin wrote:I don't know how reliable this is, but this purports to be a comprehensive list of every show at the Matrix. If the Velvets really played on Thanksgiving of 1969, it looks like this was not the only time the Matrix had a show on Thanksgiving.

http://www.chickenonaunicycle.com/Matrix%20Shows.htm
Ah good find. The advert in the SF Chronicle appeared on the monday saying they were playing from Monday to Wednesday. It seems equally unfathomable that they would have added a 4th date on Thanksgiving right at the last minute

What I'd love to do with these Matrix recordings is have some sort of audio forensics expert check them out. I'm pretty sure that they could work out which tracks in each of the "sets" were recorded at the same time/with the same mike set up/room ambience etc
The only issue there is whether anything was changed from one set to the next in the same night. We might get an identical sound between two sets of the same night or we might get something that sounds as different as comparing shows from two different nights.

bobbydriver
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Re: The Matrix Tapes - COMING SOON

Post by bobbydriver » 09 Feb 2016 13:21

A really interesting interview with the guy who mixed the Matrix Tapes box has been published here

http://imgur.com/s8NCe0t

Some great snippets of information. Confirmation that the "4 sets/2 nights" thing is nonsense, and the tapes were indeed compiled from over the whole residency (so I guess that Quine's dates are most likely more accurate)

Also confirmation that the Matrix tracks on the 3rd LP 45th Deluxe box were mixed in different earlier session with a different approach.

I like the idea of the suggested Surround edition with the Matrix tapes up front and the Quine versions in the back, so a shame it didn't happen. That would have been pretty immersive!

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