The Matrix Tapes - COMING SOON

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dial4
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Re: The Matrix Tapes - COMING SOON

Post by dial4 » 27 Nov 2015 19:00

For the moment it's like any track can come from any date, even the ticket has another printed on sleeve ! :mrgreen:

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PhantomRaspberryBlower
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Re: The Matrix Tapes - COMING SOON

Post by PhantomRaspberryBlower » 27 Nov 2015 19:29

That's a headscratcher in itself - as it stands, though, it looks like none of Quines dates are reliable...

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simonm
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Re: The Matrix Tapes - COMING SOON

Post by simonm » 27 Nov 2015 21:11

bah - still haven't got mine yet - pre-ordered from Spin...

rnranimal
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Re: The Matrix Tapes - COMING SOON

Post by rnranimal » 27 Nov 2015 22:39

PhantomRaspberryBlower wrote:Getting the thread back on track -

Loving the box so far, having listened to set 1 and 2. What do you all make of their contention that all of these tracks are from the 26th and 27th? That doesn't sit right with me...
I don't think it can be accurate that these come from two dates but are just highlights. I think the set comes from numerous dates. Also, on the hoffman forum, it was pointed out that the 27th date wasn't even listed on the ad for the shows.

I would like to know why the compilers decided these shows come from 11/26-27. I wonder what evidence they went on.

dial4
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Re: The Matrix Tapes - COMING SOON

Post by dial4 » 28 Nov 2015 13:38

simonm wrote:bah - still haven't got mine yet - pre-ordered from Spin...
In the past I was glad to got a refund from them cos they were advertising for a DVD out of stock for years...

dial4
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Re: The Matrix Tapes - COMING SOON

Post by dial4 » 28 Nov 2015 13:42

rnranimal wrote:
PhantomRaspberryBlower wrote:Getting the thread back on track -

Loving the box so far, having listened to set 1 and 2. What do you all make of their contention that all of these tracks are from the 26th and 27th? That doesn't sit right with me...
I don't think it can be accurate that these come from two dates but are just highlights. I think the set comes from numerous dates. Also, on the hoffman forum, it was pointed out that the 27th date wasn't even listed on the ad for the shows.

I would like to know why the compilers decided these shows come from 11/26-27. I wonder what evidence they went on.
The sound is very similar but I don't know if it's important to tell it's from one day or another. & as they probably cut a lot of between song-chat it's even more diificult to say it's from 26-27-17-etc

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iaredatsun
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Re: The Matrix Tapes - COMING SOON

Post by iaredatsun » 28 Nov 2015 14:03

rnranimal wrote:I don't think it can be accurate that these come from two dates but are just highlights. I think the set comes from numerous dates. Also, on the hoffman forum, it was pointed out that the 27th date wasn't even listed on the ad for the shows.

I would like to know why the compilers decided these shows come from 11/26-27. I wonder what evidence they went on.
Is that the ad reproduced in Alfredo's book and the CD box? The ad reproduced is simply an earlier set of dates. It looks like they do not have an ad for the 26-27 shows so they used that one. On page 374 of Alfredo's book there is an SF Chronicle listing about playing from 'tonight' (24th Nov) for three nights. (Assuming that notice was in a Monday paper, that leaves out the 27th, but which could have been an extra date).

Maybe Abram's tapes simply have 26-27 written on them?
underground, overground

rnranimal
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Re: The Matrix Tapes - COMING SOON

Post by rnranimal » 29 Nov 2015 09:28

iaredatsun wrote:
rnranimal wrote:I don't think it can be accurate that these come from two dates but are just highlights. I think the set comes from numerous dates. Also, on the hoffman forum, it was pointed out that the 27th date wasn't even listed on the ad for the shows.

I would like to know why the compilers decided these shows come from 11/26-27. I wonder what evidence they went on.
Is that the ad reproduced in Alfredo's book and the CD box? The ad reproduced is simply an earlier set of dates. It looks like they do not have an ad for the 26-27 shows so they used that one. On page 374 of Alfredo's book there is an SF Chronicle listing about playing from 'tonight' (24th Nov) for three nights. (Assuming that notice was in a Monday paper, that leaves out the 27th, but which could have been an extra date).

Maybe Abram's tapes simply have 26-27 written on them?
I meant the SF Chronicle. This from Oliver's site:

Announcement: in San Francisco Chronicle, Monday November 24, 1969: "At the Matrix, tonight through Wednesday : Velvet Underground, Mendlebaum.".

That's what I'm wondering. If the 11/26-27 dates were written on all the tapes, some tapes, paperwork, etc. Peter must've had those dates on something for them to be using them. I just wonder if it was written in a way that really indicates that ALL songs are from these two dates.

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simonm
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Re: The Matrix Tapes - COMING SOON

Post by simonm » 29 Nov 2015 14:42

rnranimal wrote:I meant the SF Chronicle. This from Oliver's site:

Announcement: in San Francisco Chronicle, Monday November 24, 1969: "At the Matrix, tonight through Wednesday : Velvet Underground, Mendlebaum.".

That's what I'm wondering. If the 11/26-27 dates were written on all the tapes, some tapes, paperwork, etc. Peter must've had those dates on something for them to be using them. I just wonder if it was written in a way that really indicates that ALL songs are from these two dates.
Just speculating here, but a 6 can easily look like a 4 when written down - it would make more sense if the tapes contain tracks from the whole engagement - 24th to 27th...

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Re: The Matrix Tapes - COMING SOON

Post by bobbydriver » 30 Nov 2015 10:33

rnranimal wrote: I don't think it can be accurate that these come from two dates but are just highlights. I think the set comes from numerous dates. Also, on the hoffman forum, it was pointed out that the 27th date wasn't even listed on the ad for the shows.
Also pointed out on Hoffman that 27th was Thanksgiving. Would the venue have been open on Thanksgiving? Would the band have stayed out on the West Coast or gone home to their families for a few days? Then would they have come back out a few days later for another 3 dates Dec 1-3rd? It's all a puzzle for sure

I think the only thing we can be certain of is that the songs don't just come from the dates 26/27th
The setlists from the uncirculated 3rd Dec reels
http://olivier.landemaine.free.fr/vu/li ... erf69.html
show that they played two totally different sets per night, whereas the 4 "sets" on the Matrix box are littered with repetition. Also coincidentally each "set" is circa 70 minutes and fits conveniently on a CD

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