The Velvet Forum

in my previous post i wanted to write "afraid not" and not "hope not" , sorry...
Yes, "waiting for the man" on the VUAS tape clocks at more than 9'' mn, with the last chorus singing very slowly,
with very few applauses at the end which make it more haunting than ever

Any surprises in the booklet? Previously unseen images or posters etc?

I listened to the box on Spotify and all I can say is that this one is a real letdown. I's clearly the worst 45th box. I am only going to buy after a price reduction because I already got the first three boxes and I'm interested in the 5.1 mix. The rest of the set isn't of any value to me. As others mentioned, the Second Fret Disc is nearly unlistenable and the rest of the set varies at best in nuances compared to Fully Loaded and Max's 2CD.

For me, all these boxes were shit, from packaging to content (but what do you expect when cd's are thrown in cardboard), no video, no Freeman tape, no complete Matrix (is there a problem with this venue cos for the Doors, it was sourced from cassettes apparently with a little hiss and poorer sound, the only mystery was these two instrumentals but that's an other story).
Even on the 1st volume, crackles on the scepter sessions, no complete Warhol museum CD (cuts coming from mp3 perhaps), inferior version of the Colombus performance. So no new tracks.
The second was better, only 3 discs, these mono versions I'm tired of them, what's the difference if I play the stereo mix & push the mono button on my preamp, it's not like the Beatles with different instruments, endings and so on. But an unreleased studio version of a well known classic and a live rendition of another one, but truncated by unnecessary edits of all between songs atmosphere. A shame.
The 3rd could have been four stars but the Matrix material was truncated again, mixing dates. Annoying, almost a rip off.
The fourth, well, dunno if the second fret comes from the "master" tape, but absolutely no new track on it, on 6 disc again !
Do they pay someone for tape research, I think no. So it's a deception.

I am stunned at how out of touch these Major labels are with the fan-bases they are trying to cater to. When looking for material to bulk up a "deluxe" reissue with limited appeal in the first place (take for example...Loaded, or any other VU release for that matter), the labels should go to the forums - like this one - and reach out to the people who would most likely be able to help locate the best sources possible.

Of course there are people who want to hold their recordings hostage for some ungodly amount of money, but there are others who have earlier generation recordings that could really make sets like this more worthwhile. Why not seek out the complete Waiting For My Man instead of settling for an incomplete version? And there is no effort to speed-correct this stuff? I work with one small label that bends over backwards to prevent these issues.

It's 2015 and there is no excuse for lazy research and ignoring the people who the music means the most to. They are cutting the number of potential buyers by a significant amount once reviews like this start to make it onto the Interwebs. What a friggin' joke.

Forget this set. The 2CD Deluxe version from 1997 is fine as it is.

dial4 wrote:For me, all these boxes were shit, from packaging to content (but what do you expect when cd's are thrown in cardboard), no video, no Freeman tape, no complete Matrix (is there a problem with this venue cos for the Doors, it was sourced from cassettes apparently with a little hiss and poorer sound, the only mystery was these two instrumentals but that's an other story).
Even on the 1st volume, crackles on the scepter sessions, no complete Warhol museum CD (cuts coming from mp3 perhaps), inferior version of the Colombus performance. So no new tracks.
The second was better, only 3 discs, these mono versions I'm tired of them, what's the difference if I play the stereo mix & push the mono button on my preamp, it's not like the Beatles with different instruments, endings and so on. But an unreleased studio version of a well known classic and a live rendition of another one, but truncated by unnecessary edits of all between songs atmosphere. A shame.
The 3rd could have been four stars but the Matrix material was truncated again, mixing dates. Annoying, almost a rip off.
The fourth, well, dunno if the second fret comes from the "master" tape, but absolutely no new track on it, on 6 disc again !
Do they pay someone for tape research, I think no. So it's a deception.

The Doors show was recorded before the owner of the club had a soundboard setup. It was done with mics onstage (hanging from rafters, I think). By the time he was recording the VU, he had a 4-track soundboard setup.

I agree with everything you are saying. These have been a major, major disappointment. Only good for the few new things which slipped out because of them. But you have to buy $80 sets to get them. They didn't even bother bloating WL/WH, just charged the same amount for half the discs. They copied common bootlegs and then edited them. Yes, we really want to pay for the "It's Too Loud" 90s bootleg with pieces missing - all while the guy who owns the tape is easy to track down and talk to. That one infuriates me. What a great thing a new, definitive transfer of that tape could've been. No, we get a 15 year old common bootleg that they needlessly edited.

We've been discussing the Max's speed for years on here and the Hoffman board. I think a lot of people thought it was a given that the speed would be corrected for the next release. Given their track record, I doubted it. And you know, they made it a moot point anyway by leaving off songs and editing it. Who cares if it would've been speed corrected if it's been hacked up? But is it more or less worthless than the mono disc? I can't decide.

They didn't even include all the tracks you can get on Peel Slowly and Fully Loaded. Hey, but you get the stereo album with the mono button pressed. Oh, and the singles, which again are the same mixes as the stereo album with the mono button pressed. And no honeymoon acetate.

"Super" Deluxe Edition sure means something different to me than the labels.

The Matrix set is something I'm very much looking forward to. I feel even better for having not bought the 3rd set now and copying it from a friend. I would've been livid over paying that much for a deluxe set, mainly for those 2 live discs, and find out they are releasing it a year later with the rest of the material. But I'm waiting to see if they f*** this up, too, before I buy it. They are never getting a blind buy from me again.

The Loaded DVD sounds interesting and I'd buy that alone or maybe in a $35 set with CD 1 & 2, but I'm not paying for the coasters they put in there.

Totally agree with you,guys!
We could have done a better job than them.
For the third album box set, i can't believe they've not include some La Cave or Boston Tea party stuff.
I'm glad with the Matrix stuff but got the feeling i've been twisted when I see the tracklisting of the forthcoming Matrix box.
Honestly, it's really not something I want to put my money in!

stooge wrote:Hope not. Maybe some La Cave or Boston Tea Party stuff...
Or End Cole Ave, who knows. But nothing really new; I'm afraid

If it's the case, it's really sad for the memories of Lou-Nico-Sterling,
I think Cale has some tapes and the Warhol museum VU archives too, besides the famous Freeman tape. For other rarities, like the old listings of WGO-Uptight TV shows and so on, I think they are all lost forever now. But of course, I hope to be wrong.

dial4 wrote:

stooge wrote:Hope not. Maybe some La Cave or Boston Tea Party stuff...
Or End Cole Ave, who knows. But nothing really new; I'm afraid

If it's the case, it's really sad for the memories of Lou-Nico-Sterling,
I think Cale has some tapes and the Warhol museum VU archives too, besides the famous Freeman tape. For other rarities, like the old listings of WGO-Uptight TV shows and so on, I think they are all lost forever now. But of course, I hope to be wrong.

The Warhol Museum's attitude on the VU stuff really disappoints me. They seem to want to hoard it. They put together that killer in-house CD in the 90s and then threatened to never contribute to future VU releases if a couple tracks were used on the 2002 VU & Nico set (so they were pulled). Then, 10 years later, we get a few crumbs of the disc in a 6 discs super deluxe set (and of course, the compilers of the set made further edits for no good reason). I mean, we have it on boot, but I believe they sourced the real disc, so it would've been nice to have. So I don't know if the museum only allowed use of a few tracks or if the compilers of the set made a really dumb decision. Here, they could've actually provided us with an upgrade to the bootleg but instead, they had to make more room for copies of actual bootlegs.

stooge wrote:Totally agree with you,guys!
We could have done a better job than them.
For the third album box set, i can't believe they've not include some La Cave or Boston Tea party stuff.
I'm glad with the Matrix stuff but got the feeling i've been twisted when I see the tracklisting of the forthcoming Matrix box.
Honestly, it's really not something I want to put my money in!

La Cave or BTP would've been the obvious way to go for live discs on the 3rd album box. La Cave, which it was said in the 90s had been transferred from the master for the bootleg project, would've been the best choice. Doug's first show. But then that would've meant mastering another show instead of getting to make a double cash grab for the Matrix material which had no business in the 3rd album set anyway. But since it was included, aren't you glad you got a fake mono disc instead of more Matrix tracks? But hey, now you get to pay another $50 to get those other two discs. If the labels would like people to feel bad about downloading, they are going about it the wrong way.