John Cale recorded five '3rd' album songs with VU?

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lurid
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Re: John Cale recorded five '3rd' album songs with VU?

Post by lurid » 25 Mar 2019 23:03

iaredatsun wrote:
25 Mar 2019 22:59
I think the set list is very strange for 1966. Booker T, Foggy Notion, Story and Hey Mr. Rain. It seems unlikely for 1966.

Is it possible that there was point in the VU history where Reed was unable to play with the rest of the band? I mean given that we assume Reed was not there because the set list is not in his writing.

What is the song 'I Guess Things Happen' ? Could that be Story of My Life?
I don't think that the fact that the setlist isn't in Lou's writing means anything. The Chicago 1970 setlists are in Sterling's hand. They came from his guitar case after all....

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Re: John Cale recorded five '3rd' album songs with VU?

Post by iaredatsun » 26 Mar 2019 01:15

lurid wrote:
25 Mar 2019 23:03
iaredatsun wrote:
25 Mar 2019 22:59
I think the set list is very strange for 1966. Booker T, Foggy Notion, Story and Hey Mr. Rain. It seems unlikely for 1966.

Is it possible that there was point in the VU history where Reed was unable to play with the rest of the band? I mean given that we assume Reed was not there because the set list is not in his writing.

What is the song 'I Guess Things Happen' ? Could that be Story of My Life?
I don't think that the fact that the setlist isn't in Lou's writing means anything. The Chicago 1970 setlists are in Sterling's hand. They came from his guitar case after all....
I guess what you are saying is that all the musicians in any gig had their own personal copy of the set-list to refer to. In which case the setlist in question is wide open to any gigs they did in Chicago, with or without Reed.
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Re: John Cale recorded five '3rd' album songs with VU?

Post by iaredatsun » 26 Mar 2019 01:20

Elvis Plebsley wrote:
25 Mar 2019 21:49
lurid wrote:
25 Mar 2019 02:03
Yes I take it back - no idea where I got the notion of 1968 from. Also Foggy Notion in 1966?
Am I missing something? Doesn't Olivier have them in Chicago in February and April 68? If this is a Chicago setlist, one of those dates seems much the likelier for this set. Susan Pile even mentions them playing Booker T in April.
Feb/April '68. You're right - any of these gigs is a contender for that setlist (from Olivier):

November 5-12, 1967
Aardvark, Chicago

February 1, 1968
Aardvark Cinematheque, Chicago, Illinois

April 19-20, 1968
Electric Theater, Chicago, Illinois
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Re: John Cale recorded five '3rd' album songs with VU?

Post by Wick Pick » 26 Mar 2019 12:47

iaredatsun wrote:
26 Mar 2019 01:20
Elvis Plebsley wrote:
25 Mar 2019 21:49


Am I missing something? Doesn't Olivier have them in Chicago in February and April 68? If this is a Chicago setlist, one of those dates seems much the likelier for this set. Susan Pile even mentions them playing Booker T in April.
Feb/April '68. You're right - any of these gigs is a contender for that setlist (from Olivier):

November 5-12, 1967
Aardvark, Chicago

February 1, 1968
Aardvark Cinematheque, Chicago, Illinois

April 19-20, 1968
Electric Theater, Chicago, Illinois



Do we know where they are all located? Apparently the setlist is written on paper from a restaurant six blocks away from Poor Richard's. This might be how they originally dated the piece. Could just be their favourite restaurant, who know.

Couple other things.
a) The quote from Lou before playing 'It's Just Too Much' on November 8, 1969 says "About 5 years ago we used to play it it was called 'HI Ho Silver'.' Now June of 1966 is only 3 1/2 years ago, but if it was 1968 he surely could have just said "we played it last year". This favours one of the older setlists in my opinion.

b) If we exclude the songs on this setlist then that means in 1966 the only songs Lou Reed would have written would be: Miss Joanie Lee, European Son, Femme Fatale, Get It On Time and part of Little Sister, all very early in the year. With Sunday Morning being the only song written between May and December 1966. Though my guess is that the 5 songs from the Broome St. demo tape come from this period as well, I don't think that is the consensus.
And then we already know of 10 or more songs that we would have written in 1967. I figure '66 should have been a prolific year for him, '65 certainly was.

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Re: John Cale recorded five '3rd' album songs with VU?

Post by iaredatsun » 26 Mar 2019 15:31

Wick Pick wrote:
26 Mar 2019 12:47
Do we know where they are all located? Apparently the setlist is written on paper from a restaurant six blocks away from Poor Richard's. This might be how they originally dated the piece. Could just be their favourite restaurant, who know.

Aardvark Cinematheque
1608 N. Wells Street, Chicago, IL 60614

Image

Electric Theater/Kinetic Playground
4812 N. Clark Street

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kinetic_Playground

Aardvark is as close to the Astor Tower restaurant as Poor Richards. Electric Theater not so near.
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Re: John Cale recorded five '3rd' album songs with VU?

Post by lurid » 26 Mar 2019 20:17

I am really torn about the dating of this set list. It seems incredible to me that it is from June 1966. But 1968 seems equally implausible. I think it is significant that sister ray is referred to as "searching". This surely wouldn't have happened in 1968, but is certainly believable in 1966 or 1967. Maybe the source of the piece of paper is a red herring, or maybe there was an as yet undocumented show in Chicago in 1967? The Nov 67 Chicago date appears to have been a film showing rather than a VU appearance.

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Re: John Cale recorded five '3rd' album songs with VU?

Post by lurid » 26 Mar 2019 20:19

Doesn't doug yule get a writing credit for Foggy Notion?

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Re: John Cale recorded five '3rd' album songs with VU?

Post by alfredovu » 26 Mar 2019 20:37

The That’s The Story of My Life version with Cale on Viola is on Crawdaddy August 1968 issue (Inevitable pag 271)
Most if not all the 3rd Album was composed while Cale was in the band. Also some of the songs recorded for the Lost Album: I Cant Stand it, Foggy Notion, Move Right In, Ride Into the Sun. As i said in my previous post i know Ocean was recorded with Cale May 1968 at TTG studios.

From top of my head was Sterling who referred how good was the organ on What Goes On during the summer of 1968 live performances with Cale

Yes, Yule got Credits on Foggy, but the song was &rom the Cale days: Vibrations Sept 1968, San Diego Union June 15, 1968 both artcicles mention the song in their concert reviews

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Re: John Cale recorded five '3rd' album songs with VU?

Post by iaredatsun » 26 Mar 2019 21:03

alfredovu wrote:
26 Mar 2019 20:37
The That’s The Story of My Life version with Cale on Viola is on Crawdaddy August 1968 issue (Inevitable pag 271)
Most if not all the 3rd Album was composed while Cale was in the band. Also some of the songs recorded for the Lost Album: I Cant Stand it, Foggy Notion, Move Right In, Ride Into the Sun. As i said in my previous post i know Ocean was recorded with Cale May 1968 at TTG studios.

From top of my head was Sterling who referred how good was the organ on What Goes On during the summer of 1968 live performances with Cale

Yes, Yule got Credits on Foggy, but the song was &rom the Cale days: Vibrations Sept 1968, San Diego Union June 15, 1968 both artcicles mention the song in their concert reviews
As always, excellent research and information, Alfredo. And you inform about Ocean (which I seemed to have missed earlier) confirms that the May '68 tape from the Lou Reed Archive appears correctly dated. Do you have any idea why we have never been given the May '68 TTG Studios material, before?
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Re: John Cale recorded five '3rd' album songs with VU?

Post by lurid » 26 Mar 2019 21:10

alfredovu wrote:
26 Mar 2019 20:37
The That’s The Story of My Life version with Cale on Viola is on Crawdaddy August 1968 issue (Inevitable pag 271)
Most if not all the 3rd Album was composed while Cale was in the band. Also some of the songs recorded for the Lost Album: I Cant Stand it, Foggy Notion, Move Right In, Ride Into the Sun. As i said in my previous post i know Ocean was recorded with Cale May 1968 at TTG studios.

From top of my head was Sterling who referred how good was the organ on What Goes On during the summer of 1968 live performances with Cale

Yes, Yule got Credits on Foggy, but the song was &rom the Cale days: Vibrations Sept 1968, San Diego Union June 15, 1968 both artcicles mention the song in their concert reviews
yes excellent research as always Alfredo. I also remember the Sterling quote about "WGO" but I can't remember the source. The writing credist for "Foggy" have always been very strange. Hy Weiss? I don't think we ever got to the bottom of that one.

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