The Velvet Underground Documentary - Call to Fans

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iaredatsun
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Re: The Velvet Underground Documentary - Call to Fans

Post by iaredatsun » 04 Jul 2019 22:34

walkonvu wrote:
04 Jul 2019 09:39
Haight Trashbury wrote:
04 Jul 2019 01:22


Conrad’s Upbeat tape could be either audio or video. Nobody knows. The Warhol Museum stuff is also audio. The rest is already sufficiently described.
https://forums.stevehoffman.tv/threads/ ... 409/page-3

Conrad recorded one of the (three?) Upbeat appearances over a public payphone.
It's been said on this forum before. But I'm not sure what the rumour is based on. I started to get the feeling it was the same performance that has been discussed as being taped from the TV. There seems to be a lot of hearsay concerning the alleged Upbeat TV show recording(s) and not much else.
underground, overground

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Re: The Velvet Underground Documentary - Call to Fans

Post by Haight Trashbury » 05 Jul 2019 01:50

iaredatsun wrote:
04 Jul 2019 22:34
walkonvu wrote:
04 Jul 2019 09:39


https://forums.stevehoffman.tv/threads/ ... 409/page-3

Conrad recorded one of the (three?) Upbeat appearances over a public payphone.
It's been said on this forum before. But I'm not sure what the rumour is based on. I started to get the feeling it was the same performance that has been discussed as being taped from the TV. There seems to be a lot of hearsay concerning the alleged Upbeat TV show recording(s) and not much else.
I received confirmation from both David Spero (the son of Upbeat’s creator Herman Spero) and the television archive that holds much of the remaining footage from Upbeat (inclding clips from the Spring, 1968 show that featured the VU playing “Run Run Run”), and both said that all of the Velvets’ performances on the series were wiped. Oliver’s site has a quote from Conrad where he states that he taped the VU’s second Upbeat appearance while it was still being aired on TV. His tape is thus the only known copy of the VU on Upbeat that has a reasonable chance of still existing, although we have no good evidence as to whether his recording was audio or video. The info runs dry after that.

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Re: The Velvet Underground Documentary - Call to Fans

Post by alfredovu » 05 Jul 2019 09:50

In the Summer of 2010 I had some email exchange with Tony Conrad. This is what he told me about the UPBEAT show:

"Hi Alfredo-------------

Well, I do have a recording of that show------but it's on a reel-to-reel AUDIOtape; and I'm away from my collection right now, so I don't have access to it. I haven't listened to the tape, so I don't even know if the VU played any music or just talked.

--------------t0ny"

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Re: The Velvet Underground Documentary - Call to Fans

Post by Haight Trashbury » 05 Jul 2019 15:49

alfredovu wrote:
05 Jul 2019 09:50
In the Summer of 2010 I had some email exchange with Tony Conrad. This is what he told me about the UPBEAT show:

"Hi Alfredo-------------

Well, I do have a recording of that show------but it's on a reel-to-reel AUDIOtape; and I'm away from my collection right now, so I don't have access to it. I haven't listened to the tape, so I don't even know if the VU played any music or just talked.

--------------t0ny"
Ok. It’s official, then. No video survives from Upbeat. Only audio. The surviving tape is of them playing “Run Run Run” in Spring, 1968 (I figured it out).

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Re: The Velvet Underground Documentary - Call to Fans

Post by simonm » 05 Jul 2019 22:20

Haight Trashbury wrote:
04 Jul 2019 01:08

Actually, considering that the only publically known copy of that version of “Guess I’m Falling in Love” was taped (very crudely) off of the radio, there’s no way to tell whether it’s soundboard-quality. Also, Oliver’s site made it very clear that Cale has “Walk and Talk It” from the Gymnasium. You are right when you say that it’s unclear whether there’s anything more, however.
The radio recording is from a US FM station in 1979 (i forget which but i have it on a cassette that I bought in 1981 or 2), the performance recording is crude and compressed, sure, but the source radio segment it comes from is nice and clear and good quality. It has a minute or so of the DJ sucking up to Cale after the song, he replies to questions about 'the lineup of, uh, the Underground at that point', and sounds a little bit hesitant about the venue, stumbling over the name slightly, but says it was April 1967 'right after Nico went'. I can digitize and upload if it's of interest - i think the sound quality of the song is pretty much as it appears on the And So On LP from 1982 (with notes by Phil M), but the radio bit is worth hearing.

btw how did you work out the date and contents of Conrad's tape?

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Re: The Velvet Underground Documentary - Call to Fans

Post by Haight Trashbury » 05 Jul 2019 23:23

simonm wrote:
05 Jul 2019 22:20
Haight Trashbury wrote:
04 Jul 2019 01:08

Actually, considering that the only publically known copy of that version of “Guess I’m Falling in Love” was taped (very crudely) off of the radio, there’s no way to tell whether it’s soundboard-quality. Also, Oliver’s site made it very clear that Cale has “Walk and Talk It” from the Gymnasium. You are right when you say that it’s unclear whether there’s anything more, however.
The radio recording is from a US FM station in 1979 (i forget which but i have it on a cassette that I bought in 1981 or 2), the performance recording is crude and compressed, sure, but the source radio segment it comes from is nice and clear and good quality. It has a minute or so of the DJ sucking up to Cale after the song, he replies to questions about 'the lineup of, uh, the Underground at that point', and sounds a little bit hesitant about the venue, stumbling over the name slightly, but says it was April 1967 'right after Nico went'. I can digitize and upload if it's of interest - i think the sound quality of the song is pretty much as it appears on the And So On LP from 1982 (with notes by Phil M), but the radio bit is worth hearing.

btw how did you work out the date and contents of Conrad's tape?
Ok, then it’s probably just that and “Walk and Talk It.” “Walk and Talk It” probably isn’t a soundboard either, since its omission from the WL/WH 45 Anniv. release seems to indicate an inferior-quality recording. As for Upbeat, Oliver’s site listed a quote from Conrad in which he stated that he produced his tape on May 11, 1968 and that the episode captured also featured the Yardbirds. The Velvets’ only Upbeat appearance to match that criteria is a manic performance of “Run Run Run,” as confirmed from relevant eyewitness accounts and broadcasting schedules.

Also, I’d LOVE to hear your radio tape.

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Re: The Velvet Underground Documentary - Call to Fans

Post by Sheila Klein » 06 Jul 2019 00:13

Dear Mr. Trashbury,

Your insistence on making categorical statements, for instance:
It’s official, then.
Mystery solved.
... absolutely no doubt ...
on matters subject to the vagaries and distortions of 50 years' time makes it hard to take your otherwise valuable information as seriously as you seem to want it to be. How, in fact, is one to regard you as a credible source when you repeatedly call Olivier Landemaine "Oliver"? In our corner of the world that's a grievous error, even if Olivier himself is too mature to be bothered by it.

I don't mean to discourage you from contributing here, but your comments would be much more welcome if you would temper your enthusiasm with appropriate amounts of uncertainty. Otherwise, you're doomed to come off as a goofy sophomore, who knows everything including the unknowable.

--Phil Milstein

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Re: The Velvet Underground Documentary - Call to Fans

Post by simonm » 06 Jul 2019 01:25

Phil's point about the un-know-able is very apt.
We know they were on Upbeat at least twice, maybe 3 times.
We know Conrad taped them.
There are records of them being on in the first week of May 1968 from tv listings
from http://olivier.landemaine.free.fr/vu/video/tv/tv.html one person (Tom Cramer) remembers them doing RRR on the show in June '68, but another (Michael Weldon from Mirrors) says it was the Doug Yule lineup that did RRR on Upbeat, in October, but it that's true they were on three times, and in the same paragraph he says they were only on twice. Weldon also says they did GIFIL in early 67, but Olivier says July '67 (based on tv listings again, and I think it's in Up-Tight too).
So: facts get garbled, and you have to accept it. They don't always add up. The best we can say is maybe for this stuff. One maybe that we considered on an old thread here is that the 2nd Gymnasium GIFIL was actually Conrad's off-air Upbeat recording from 1967. That is a possibility, a theory, but it relies on Cale making a mistake on a radio interview in 1979....

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Sheila Klein
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Re: The Velvet Underground Documentary - Call to Fans

Post by Sheila Klein » 06 Jul 2019 02:13

... 2nd Gymnasium GIFIL was actually Conrad's off-air Upbeat recording from 1967.
And also, as lo-fi as that GIFIL is I reckon it sounds like a studio session compared to the likely fidelity of a TV signal recorded via telephone in the late '60s.

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Re: The Velvet Underground Documentary - Call to Fans

Post by Haight Trashbury » 06 Jul 2019 06:33

Sheila Klein wrote:
06 Jul 2019 02:13
... 2nd Gymnasium GIFIL was actually Conrad's off-air Upbeat recording from 1967.
And also, as lo-fi as that GIFIL is I reckon it sounds like a studio session compared to the likely fidelity of a TV signal recorded via telephone in the late '60s.
That’s a very common misconception. The Velvets played GIFIL on their 1967 Upbeat appearance ONLY. Conrad explicitly stated that his tape was of the Spring, 1968 VU show, which was “Run Run Run.” It’s very tempting to believe the Gymnasium=Upbeat argument, but the dates simply don’t match.

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