Best sources for live recordings

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Kill Mick
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Re: Best sources for live recordings

Post by Kill Mick » 27 Oct 2023 16:16

The links to the speed-corrected FLACs of 1966 on page 7 of the other thread still seem to be working.
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Elvis Plebsley
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Re: Best sources for live recordings

Post by Elvis Plebsley » 28 Oct 2023 10:58

Thatch wrote:
26 Oct 2023 10:54

1967-04-?? The Gynmasium, NY
This is the recording of GIFIL that Cale played on the radio in 1979. A different performance with slightly different lyrics and a lower audio fidelity, probably due to being transmitted over the radio. Which is the best fidelity, or are the bootleg CDs all the same? I have the one from Caught Between The Twisted Stars. Also worth noting that the performance on The Psychopath's Rolling Stones is yet another different performance, probably from an TV studio performance.
Interesting thread, Thatch. I was intrigued by the above and dug out the cd, but the version of GIFIL that Cale played on the radio is the same as the one that appears on The Psychopath's Rolling Stones. There is a 3rd version from which purports to be from Upbeat TV show in 1967, but as far as I know, it is only available on YouTube.

ETA: Lund Peterson uses an image of the cover of The Psychopaths Rolling Stones as the 'video' of the Upbeat Guess I'm Falling in Love. I assume that's where the misunderstanding originates.

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Re: Best sources for live recordings

Post by Thatch » 28 Oct 2023 14:35

Kill Mick wrote:
27 Oct 2023 16:16
The links to the speed-corrected FLACs of 1966 on page 7 of the other thread still seem to be working.
You are indeed correct - thank you.

I've done some analysis of the four versions of Valleydale 1966:
1) Move Back! and VU&N boxset are from the same source and have the same edit in Melody Laughter and digital distortion in Heroin. The boxset is clearly taken from Move Back; it has the tuning between tracks edited out, and has been ED'd to give more mid-range.
2) 1966 and Caught Between The Twisted Stars are from a different source from the above; I assume this is the original cassette described in the other thread. CBTTS has had some noise reduction, compression and EQ applied.
3) I believe the most complete, lowest gen version would be 1966 with the tuning and chatter added back in from Move Back. I have started work on this, it can be found here: https://mega.nz/file/WzgX0TDD#ubMGXBg68 ... BfGCBbpcVg (this is available for a week).

It's surprising that the officially released version was mastered from a bootleg CD when there are lower generation, better quality, more complete versions out there. However it's the same story for the May 1970 Second Fret recording on the Loaded boxset - WTTM is edited horribly, fades out and misses the end of the song. I wonder if anyone listens to these CDs before they're put on sale...

Thatch
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Re: Best sources for live recordings

Post by Thatch » 28 Oct 2023 14:37

Elvis Plebsley wrote:
28 Oct 2023 10:58
Thatch wrote:
26 Oct 2023 10:54

1967-04-?? The Gynmasium, NY
This is the recording of GIFIL that Cale played on the radio in 1979. A different performance with slightly different lyrics and a lower audio fidelity, probably due to being transmitted over the radio. Which is the best fidelity, or are the bootleg CDs all the same? I have the one from Caught Between The Twisted Stars. Also worth noting that the performance on The Psychopath's Rolling Stones is yet another different performance, probably from an TV studio performance.
Interesting thread, Thatch. I was intrigued by the above and dug out the cd, but the version of GIFIL that Cale played on the radio is the same as the one that appears on The Psychopath's Rolling Stones. There is a 3rd version from which purports to be from Upbeat TV show in 1967, but as far as I know, it is only available on YouTube.

ETA: Lund Peterson uses an image of the cover of The Psychopaths Rolling Stones as the 'video' of the Upbeat Guess I'm Falling in Love. I assume that's where the misunderstanding originates.
Ah - you are correct. A mystery! Based on the sound of Lund Peterson's Youtube upload of GIFIL, I think this was recorded from a TV broadcast, possibly the Upbeat broadcast. Unfortunately we have no way of knowing for sure...

Thatch
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Re: Best sources for live recordings

Post by Thatch » 28 Oct 2023 15:09

1970...

1970-01-02 Second Fret, Philadelphia PA
Four songs - pretty good sounds quality. I think the various CDs and LPs all sound about the same, so the version I use is from Searchin' For My Mainline.

1970-01-03 Second Fret, Philadelphia PA
Sister Ray from the above bootleg CD.

1970-04-17 Paramount Theatre, Springfield MA
I have two versions of this - not sure of either source, both were downloaded from torrent sites. One is in FLAC with more mid range and less top end (some noise reduction has been applied), and one is mp3 with more top end and less mid range, and I think it runs a bit slow (I think the mp3 is from After The White Heat, with Heroin coming from another unknown source). Neither are particularly good quality, but the FLAC is probably the better of a bad bunch. The sound quality noticeably deteriorates towards the end.

1970-05-09 Second Fret, Philadelphia PA
I have two versions of this. One is mp3 and complete, and the other is the FLAC from the Loaded boxset. The Loaded boxset does sound the best, but fades out during WFFM, missing the end of the song (as well as some tuning afterwards). The most complete version is to re-insert the end of WFFM from the bootleg into the Loaded version, which I have done.

1970-xx-xx Max's Kansas City, NY - rehearsal tape
I have this labelled as June 26th but Olivier doesn't give a date. I have a complete recording, all in mp3 from an unknown source. The sound quality is pretty poor with a lot of tape noise. However, the last two tracks also appear on the Max's Kansas City official 2CD promo, in much higher quality. Are the other tracks available in similar higher quality anywhere?

1970-xx-xx Max's Kansas City, NY - Freeman tape
Clips in circulation of 15 tracks in mp3 format. Please could someone official acquire the rights to this and get it released!

1970-08-23 Max's Kansas City, NY - Polk tape
A famous recording, released officially many times. Some doubt over the date of the first set. I believe the best version is the 2CD set released in the mid 00s; however both sets run at the wrong speed. I have re-rendered these at the correct speeds in FLAC format, which I consider to be the definitive version.

...and that's it for the golden era of the VU (with the exception of some 65-66 recordings which I will detail shortly).

Of course, there are later VU concerts fronted by Doug Yule, and also the reunion concerts in 1990 and 1993. I have never tried to collect these as Lou's vocals aren't great, but I'll work on them in due course.

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Mark
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Re: Best sources for live recordings

Post by Mark » 31 Oct 2023 14:53

Thatch wrote:
28 Oct 2023 14:35
Kill Mick wrote:
27 Oct 2023 16:16
The links to the speed-corrected FLACs of 1966 on page 7 of the other thread still seem to be working.
You are indeed correct - thank you.

I've done some analysis of the four versions of Valleydale 1966:
1) Move Back! and VU&N boxset are from the same source and have the same edit in Melody Laughter and digital distortion in Heroin. The boxset is clearly taken from Move Back; it has the tuning between tracks edited out, and has been ED'd to give more mid-range.
2) 1966 and Caught Between The Twisted Stars are from a different source from the above; I assume this is the original cassette described in the other thread. CBTTS has had some noise reduction, compression and EQ applied.
3) I believe the most complete, lowest gen version would be 1966 with the tuning and chatter added back in from Move Back. I have started work on this, it can be found here: https://mega.nz/file/WzgX0TDD#ubMGXBg68 ... BfGCBbpcVg (this is available for a week).
I can add some clarity on the versions of Columbus 66.

A few years ago I tracked down Doug Snyder, who was one of the tapers of the show and helped Mike Kostek with the CD release in the 90s.

Doug clarified that Move Back is from a DAT of his master. All edits etc were therefore, I think, done in the digital domain.

1966 was mastered from a 1st gen cassette which Doug had previously given to Kostek when they were working on the release. It somehow leaked to a bootleg producer and made its way out before Move Back was ready.

The different edits are a result of them considering how best to present the show, considering the lengthy pauses between songs on the master. 1966 has one approach - fading out after one song, and fading in before the next. Move Back has another approach - editing out sections of 'dead air' between songs for a more seamless experience.

Therefore, the best available rendition of this show would have to be based mainly around Move Back, but with sections cut in from 1966 to restore the missing bits from Nothing Song (and Melody Laughter??), the damaged parts of Heroin, and possibly some bits between songs.

Incidentally, Doug still has the tape. How amazing would it be if someone with real top-end pro equipment were to do a fresh hi-res transfer of the whole thing? He's in the Ohio area, so if anyone's passing...
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Sheila Klein
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Re: Best sources for live recordings

Post by Sheila Klein » 31 Oct 2023 18:56

I've been doing some work lately on the End Of Cole Avenue recordings. Most of it's been of minor stuff -- improving fadeouts and the like -- but I also made what I think is a pretty convincing repair to the brief dropdown (at about 10'20") in the second night's version of "Sister Ray." PM me, if interested, to get a FLAC of that track.

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Re: Best sources for live recordings

Post by jonas » 01 Nov 2023 00:23

Mark, I read in the other thread that the person owning the tape would be willing to do a fresh transfer for some money, has nothing ever come of this???
Mark wrote:
17 Jan 2014 14:52
...
Regarding the possibity of ever digging out the tape again for a fresh transfer:
As to another mastering of the old tape, it's up in a cabinet in my bedroom (I hope my daughters just don't throw it away, someday ? what's this old thing?), and hasn't been touched for twenty years. I was hoping that Universal would fly me into NYC to master it for the big time, but baring that, I'm done with it really. Done with that project. Now if money was involved (not to sound greedy ? just to make it worth my while!)..

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Mark
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Re: Best sources for live recordings

Post by Mark » 01 Nov 2023 17:33

No, nothing ever came of it. I don't personally have the resources to make it happen, but it'd be wonderful to see.
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