The Velvet Forum

Fair point about Walk & Talk, but what could we replace it with?
I've decided to replace 'Foggy Notion' with 'Ocean', as a) I love that track, and b) I've just read they did it with Cale in '68 and there's therefore a connection with the demo version he played on in '70 on Fully Loaded (which is the version I'd include). Interestingly Cale apparently referred to 'Ocean' as 'Here Come The Waves', which is also how Olivier refers to the demo version from April 70, which is the version Cale apparently played on. Coincidence?

peppergomez wrote:They should have called reeds bluff and left the band.

According to two different sources which I cannot currently locate, Sterling did leave the band, but only for a day or so (until he calmed down I guess). I'm pretty glad he did go back I have to say.

I really hope that they don't use compression on the Matrix tracks. They used too much compression on the Gymnasium tape, and made it sound worse than the bootlegs. I cant listen to it because it gives me a headache. The Dispatches version, and even the original LP version sound much better. Lets hope they realise that the Matrix tapes sound good as they are and don't need to be compressed. We like good dynamic range!!

Also all the between songs chat has been cut out. Also Cale has tapes he didn't want to issue, don't know why.

Kill Mick wrote:Fair point about Walk & Talk, but what could we replace it with?
I've decided to replace 'Foggy Notion' with 'Ocean', as a) I love that track, and b) I've just read they did it with Cale in '68 and there's therefore a connection with the demo version he played on in '70 on Fully Loaded (which is the version I'd include). Interestingly Cale apparently referred to 'Ocean' as 'Here Come The Waves', which is also how Olivier refers to the demo version from April 70, which is the version Cale apparently played on. Coincidence?

Funny thing about the whole "fantasy albums" scenario is that there's 3 times where an extra VU album could have happened.

* A 1968 album with Cale, either using some of out timeline's 3rd album tracks (like 'Beginning to See the light') or not.

* The "lost album" from 1969.

* A double-album version of 'Loaded' or a follow-up using some of the tracks demo-ed in those sessions after a bit more work on them. You could even use live tracks like 'Follow the leader' that weren't recorded in the studio by the VU.

Taking all this into account, the VU could easily have produced 6 or 7 albums instead of 4... If John Cale never gets fired by Lou, that also *possibly* brings the 'Vintage Violence' songs into the mix - they fit well with the vaguely country-rock style that the VU were heading in by 1970.

Kill Mick wrote: I don't buy the idea that 'Pale Blue Eyes' wouldn't be included coz Cale didn't like it (which I hadn't heard) - he played it with them in '68 and '93 so I'm guessing he'd be persuaded.

He also played it with Lou in 1990 at the Drella gig in Japan (if not elsewhere)

Reed, Cale and Nico also rehearsed "Pale Blue Eyes" prior to the 1972 Bataclan show

bobbydriver wrote:

Kill Mick wrote: I don't buy the idea that 'Pale Blue Eyes' wouldn't be included coz Cale didn't like it (which I hadn't heard) - he played it with them in '68 and '93 so I'm guessing he'd be persuaded.

He also played it with Lou in 1990 at the Drella gig in Japan (if not elsewhere)

How about a 1965 debut - I guess half the banana tracks would be there, but probably in wildly different form (cf PS&S disc 1) but then there'd be Prominent Men, Wrap yr Troubles, Walk Alone, Why Don't You Smile Now and a 40-minute Maclise led freeform instrumental on LP2!

lurid wrote:Reed, Cale and Nico also rehearsed "Pale Blue Eyes" prior to the 1972 Bataclan show

Guys, as I said, i got it wrong about Cale not liking Pale Blue Eyes. Strange that Morrison should have made a statement on this one song, though.

Kill Mick wrote:Fair point about Walk & Talk, but what could we replace it with?
I've decided to replace 'Foggy Notion' with 'Ocean', as a) I love that track, and b) I've just read they did it with Cale in '68 and there's therefore a connection with the demo version he played on in '70 on Fully Loaded (which is the version I'd include). Interestingly Cale apparently referred to 'Ocean' as 'Here Come The Waves', which is also how Olivier refers to the demo version from April 70, which is the version Cale apparently played on. Coincidence?

I can see that Ocean is strong enough as a song to be a contender. But did Reed write this song when Cale was in the band? It's nice to hear Cale on organ but, personally, the earlier 69 version is stronger for me than the Loaded sessions one. I'd keep Foggy on my own shortlist list as it was a Cale era song.

Those early 1967 Ludlow Street demos. I really like them. Too far away from the late 1968 VU sound for our purposes, but there was a whole idea in there, waiting to get out that I wish they had developed. And why did they get left off the recent WLWH remaster?