The Velvet Forum

Ingrid [p50/51, about 1966 Poor Richard's, Chicago]: "... we gave a reading, Gerard, me and Angus MacLise and John Cale. And when John Cale read off 'Venus In Furs', 'Heroin' and 'Wrap Your Troubles In Dreams', which is a very, very sentimental song. Well, Nico usually sings that song. And she usually sings it sitting down, while Louis has one leg perched up on a chair playing the guitar. And there are low lights, well there's hardly any lights, and like there's a big spotlight projected on Louis and Nico."

I know only two versions of WYTiD, the 1965 demos sung by John Cale and Nico's 1967 CG album version [with Jackson Browne on guitar?]; but didn't know this was performed in the EPI!

My questions:
--there are pictures by Nat Finkelstein [in UT and NF's 1989 photobook] with Lou Reed on guitar and Nico projected behind him, might these be when performing WYTiD?
--is there anywhere else any mention from WYTiD performed at EPI?
--has anybody ever heard [about] any recordings from WYTiD performed at EPI?

Lost to the mists of time I'm afraid. The only people who could attest to that would the lucky ones who were there and still alive, since no one was documenting these shows. Personally, I'm interested to know if they performed It Was a Pleaure Then at the EPI. That's my favorite collaboration of theirs with Nico. And I'd love to hear a live recording of Sunday Morning and Here She Comes Now with Nico, since she sang both of them with the band.

On the Chelsea Girl album I'd assume it's either Lou or Sterling playing guitar on WYTiD since they play on the album as well.

peppergomez wrote: ↑14 May 2022 23:45 ...Personally, I'm interested to know if they performed It Was a Pleaure Then at the EPI. That's my favorite collaboration of theirs with Nico...
...
On the Chelsea Girl album I'd assume it's either Lou or Sterling playing guitar on WYTiD since they play on the album as well.

I have somewhere an interview with Nico in which she speaks about IWaPT, when I find it will quote it in this thread.

In the credits on http://smironne.free.fr/NICO/chels.php is mentioned Jackson Browne on acoustic guitar on WYTiD; I considered that strange, so I put the question mark behind it in my original comment.
To me Lou Reed seems more logic on the guitar, but am unable to define who's playing there.
PS: on my copy of CG [1971, UK pressing] John Cale is credited for writing WYTiD, which imho is utter nonsense as the text is clearly by Reed and on the demo he's playing the guitar, so the music seems to be his also.

That link for Chelsea Girls omits Sterling entirely and credits Lou as lead guitar when none of the tracks have lead guitar, just fingerticked accompaniment guitar (except for the feedvack guitar on It Was a Pleasure Then). So I wouldn't take that as an authority on anything except maybe the session dates.

Don't know about EPI performances, but, in addition to the Wrap your Troubles demo on PSAS, there's a version (also sung by Cale) on the 1965 demo tape we're supposedly getting a release of sometime this year, but, for now, you need to go to the New York Public Library to listen to. I've heard it - did not like it.

In an old thread of mine talking about this tape, user threechordwonder posted an article with Cale talking about what was very likely this same version:

Now, "Wrap your troubles" was rehearsed with a girl called Electra who was hitting a sarinda so hard her knuckles bled. See https://www.uncut.co.uk/features/john-c ... o-30063/3/ and scroll down to "There she goes again" for Cale's notes.

hkmartin wrote: ↑15 May 2022 19:11 Don't know about EPI performances, but, in addition to the Wrap your Troubles demo on PSAS, there's a version (also sung by Cale) on the 1965 demo tape we're supposedly getting a release of sometime this year, but, for now, you need to go to the New York Public Library to listen to. I've heard it - did not like it.

In an old thread of mine talking about this tape, user threechordwonder posted an article with Cale talking about what was very likely this same version:

Now, "Wrap your troubles" was rehearsed with a girl called Electra who was hitting a sarinda so hard her knuckles bled. See https://www.uncut.co.uk/features/john-c ... o-30063/3/ and scroll down to "There she goes again" for Cale's notes.

Do you recall whether the recording you heard had anything like sarinda accompaniment on it?

Do you recall whether the recording you heard had anything like sarinda accompaniment on it?

Yes! Though I would never have identified it as a sarinda. It sounded like someone beating the crap out of a wooden box. This is what I wrote back in my other thread when it was still fresh on my mind (three years ago).

Wrap Your Trouble In Dreams – I never liked this song much to begin with, and this is probably the worst version I’ve heard. I almost didn’t make it to the end. One of them is beating on a box or something very loudly and not keeping time well. Very long.

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=145696

hkmartin wrote: ↑16 May 2022 06:54

Do you recall whether the recording you heard had anything like sarinda accompaniment on it?

Yes! Though I would never have identified it as a sarinda. It sounded like someone beating the crap out of a wooden box. This is what I wrote back in my other thread when it was still fresh on my mind (three years ago).

Wrap Your Trouble In Dreams – I never liked this song much to begin with, and this is probably the worst version I’ve heard. I almost didn’t make it to the end. One of them is beating on a box or something very loudly and not keeping time well. Very long.

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=145696

thanks. I suppose the sarinda could be used as a simple percussion box, but it’s a stringed, usually bowed, instrument.

thanks. I suppose the sarinda could be used as a simple percussion box, but it’s a stringed, usually bowed, instrument.

Yah - I see that. Cale's comment that Electra was hitting it so hard her knuckles bled makes me think she wasn't "playing" it in the traditional sense. And in the recording, all I can say is that someone was hitting something very, very hard and not doing so very musically. I think there's good reason to think it was neither Cale nor Lou. I could be wrong, but my best guess is that the recording I heard lines up with Cale's comment.

Btw, I noticed in my old comments that I failed to point out that it was the only recording on the tape on which Cale was singing lead vocals.

hkmartin wrote: ↑16 May 2022 15:53

thanks. I suppose the sarinda could be used as a simple percussion box, but it’s a stringed, usually bowed, instrument.

Yah - I see that. Cale's comment that Electra was hitting it so hard her knuckles bled makes me think she wasn't "playing" it in the traditional sense. And in the recording, all I can say is that someone was hitting something very, very hard and not doing so very musically. I think there's good reason to think it was neither Cale nor Lou. I could be wrong, but my best guess is that the recording I heard lines up with Cale's comment.

Btw, I noticed in my old comments that I failed to point out that it was the only recording on the tape on which Cale was singing lead vocals.

Yes. Now I’m with you. Given that Electra was perhaps a non-musician then it does sound plausible - if as you say the percussion was particularly unskilled.