The Velvet Forum

It sounds like I've been making some drone music without even realising... feedback, distortion, long and drawn out, that would describe my stuff well...

I shall have to check out the aformentioned Metal Machine Music and John Cale (what John Cale albums would be good for drone?)

obscure wrote:(what John Cale albums would be good for drone?)

His New York in the Sixties series on Table of the Elements Records.

'drone music', as folk who might be interested in its relation to the VU, can be thought of as music which foregoes traditional (ie western) notions of structure, harmony, resolution etc. In the place of these qualities (which one might say remained present in modernist and serialist composition) is concern for extended duration, concentration on timbre and repetition.

There's a great deal of overlap between the musical minimalism of the sixties (la monte young/ tony conrad etc, terry riley, phil niblock, steve reich and phillip glass) and what were calling 'drone' music. The unifying aspect of these composers work might be said to be its economy of resource in relation to previous manifestations of western avant garde composition. So Riley's 'In C' is structured around C major variations, much of Reich's work concentrated on repetitive percussive patterns 'Drumming', "Phase Patterns' etc). Tony Conrad developed a system based (if i remember correctly) on the relationship between rational numbers and frequency ratios.

The development of this strand in music is parallelled, to a certain extent, in visual art and philosophy's ongoing concern with the 'end' of representation as a valid mode of interpretation. So much of this minmalism is concerned with 'pure' sound, ie, non-linear, non-narrative based.

A good place to start for anyone interested in the appropriation of these concerns in western art music would be Potter & Whittal's book, "Four Musical Minimalists: La Monte Young, Terry Riley, Steve Reich, Phillip Glass" (Cambridge University Press)

As far as relations to the VU go, Table of the Elements seems to be the label that's doing most of the work. Tony Conrad's 'Four Violins' from 1964 is included on his 4cd 'Early Minimalism' set- they were also responsible for putting out the infamous 'Day of Niagra' Theatre of Eternal Music release (featuring Cale, Conrad, Young, Zazeela and Angus Maclise) - the only commercially available Conrad/ Cale era recording of this group. the sound is awful, (tape drop-out, hiss, distortion etc), but it's such a powerful performance and important historical recording, it's a must-have. There's been a lot of wrangling (Cale/ Conrad vs Young) over this recording:

tony c lays it down at:
http://media.hyperreal.org/zines/est/in ... onrad.html

Young's version can be found here:
http://www.melafoundation.org/statemen.htm

La Monte Youngs records are pretty much impossible to get hold of, unless you're willing to mortgage your house/ family etc. The 'Well Tuned Piano' is still available from the MELA foundation website, on 5 cassettes for...$301...i kid you not...

also worth checking out for the quality of the drone are Pauline Oliveros (microtonal accordian), Arnold Dreyblatt, Charlemagne Palestine - and for guitar-only folk, Glenn Branca and Rhys Chatham's early stuff.

mr. melia wrote:La Monte Youngs records are pretty much impossible to get hold of, unless you're willing to mortgage your house/ family etc.

Well, if you can make it past the Manson/Satan/Nazi/Serial Killer merchandise, this dark and strange site has a whole bunch of LaMonte on offer by way of cassette ($8 per tape). Having never ordered from them, I can't vouch for the quality of the service of worthiness of the material (though it all appears to be bootleg, and probably nothing too spectacular), but seeing how impossibly rare Young's stuff is, somebody may feel brave and want to check it out. They've also got a boatload of Velvet audio and video, and Nico stuff too.


Cassettes:

(0221) VELVET UNDERGROUND: BOSTON TEA PARTY VOL. 1 (1968) (90 min.)

(0221A) VELVET UNDERGROUND: BOSTON TEA PARTY VOL. 2 (1-10-69) (90 min.)

(0221B) VELVET UNDERGROUND: BOSTON TEA PARTY VOL. 3 (1-10-69) (90 min.)

(0221C) VELVET UNDERGROUND: BOSTON TEA PARTY VOL. 4 (3-13-69) (90 min.)

(0221G) VELVET UNDERGROUND: BOSTON TEA PARTY VOL. 5 (3-15-69) (90 min.)

(0221D) VELVET UNDERGROUND WITH NICO: LIVE IN CLEVELAND (11-4-66)
Plus radio ad; Lou Reed interview on WBCN (3-3-69); miscellanea. (60 min.)

(0221E) VELVET UNDERGROUND: LIVE AT CLEVELAND MUSIC HALL (10-68 )
Plus 1972 Paris rehearsal. (60 min.)

(0221F) VELVET UNDERGROUND: LIVE AT SECOND FRET, PHILADELPHIA, 1970 (90 min.)

(0222) VELVET UNDERGROUND: OUTTAKES FROM LOADED AND LIVE AT MAX?S (90 min.)

(0223) VELVET UNDERGROUND: LIVE 1966
Plus REED/CALE/NICO LIVE IN PARIS 1972. (90 min.)

(0224) VELVET UNDERGROUND: LIVE 1971
Plus REED/NICO BEDROOM REHEARSAL 1970. (90 min.)

(0225B) VELVET UNDERGROUND: BRITISH DOCUMENTARY - (from video) (90 min.)

(0225C) VELVET UNDERGROUND: END OF COLE/LIVE IN DALLAS
October 27 and 28, 1969. (90 min.)

(0225D) VELVET UNDERGROUND: PARIS REUNION 1990 - (from video)
Plus INTERVIEW 1967 (60 min.)

(0225E) VELVET UNDERGROUND: NEW YORK 1970 (60 min.)

(0225F) VELVET UNDERGROUND: OUTTAKES FROM "VU" ?69 AND MISC. (90 min.)

(0225G) MOE TUCKER: HELDESHEIM ?91 (90 min.)

(0226) NICO: LIVE IN AUSTRIA 1987 (90 min.)

(0227) NICO: LIVE 1979 AND INTERVIEW (60 min.)

(0228) NICO: LIVE IN WASHINGTON, D.C.
Plus WILLIAM S. BURROUGHS: NAROPA 1985. (60 min.)

(0228A) NICO: LIVE IN OSLO 1985 (90 min.)

(0228B) NICO: LIVE IN LONDON (7-6-82) (60 min.)

(0228C) NICO: LIVE AT THE PARADISO, AMSTERDAM (8-1-83) VOL. 1 (90 min.)

(0228D) NICO: LIVE AT THE PARADISO, AMSTERDAM (8-1-83) VOL. 2 (60 min.)

(0228E) NICO: LIVE AT CHRISTCHURCH, CHARLTON HOTEL (2-26-86) (90 min.)

(0228F) NICO: LIVE IN BOLOGNA (2-2-82) (90 min.)

(0228G) NICO: LIVE AT ROSKILDE, PARAMOUNT (6-12-82) (90 min.)

(0228H) NICO: LIVE WITH TIM HARDIN IN PARIS (2-14-76) (90 min.)

(0228I) NICO: VPRO BACKLINE SESSION ?83
With John Cale plus British interview and miscellania. (60 min.)

(0228J) NICO: LONDON POLY ?81 (90 min.)

(0228K) NICO: MUNCHEN 9-11-87 (90 min.)

(0228L) NICO: PARIS 2-15-77 LA PALACE (90 min.)

(0228M) NICO: MANCHESTER - EDEN?S NOV. 26 ?81 and FEB. ?71 RADIO UK (90 min.)

(0228N) NICO: MARSEILLE ?75 and NYC CBGB ?79

(0228O) NICO: CBGB 3-8-79 and CAMBRIDGE, MASS. ?82 (90 min.)

(0228P) NICO: MABUHAY 5-28-79 and DESOLATION ANGEL AUG. ?71 (90 min.)

(0228Q) NICO: WALES SEPT. 12, ?82
Plus UK RADIO and CHELSEA GIRLS ?81 and FRENCH TV ?75 and CAPTAIN BEEFHEART DEMOS ?65 and AVALON SF ?67. (90 min.)

(0228R) NICO: OLD WALDORF SF 7-21-82 (90 min.)

(0228S) NICO: INTERVIEWS ?75-?86 (90 min.)

(0228T) NICO: LIVE PRAGUE ?87

(0228U) NICO: LIVE TOKYO ?87

(0228V) NICO: LIVE DUSSELDORF ?87

(0230A) LAMONTE YOUNG WITH PAUST PRAN NATH ?71 (60 min.)

(0230B) LAMONTE YOUNG
For Brass/?58, For Brass 2, For Guitar ?59, Vegadelta 23 ?59, Raga By Rorra 1-60 (60 min.)

(0230C) LAMONTE YOUNG
Raga by Rorra cont. ?60, Poem for Chairs, Tables, Benches ?60, 2 Sounds ?61, Piano Study ?61 (90 min.)

(0230D) LAMONTE YOUNG
With Minon Zozula, John Cale, Angus Maclise, Tony Conrad - comp. ?60 # 7 ?61 B6 Dorian Blues ?63. The Over Day ?63, Early Tuesday Morning ?63, Evening NYC ?63, Day of the Antler. (90 min.)

(0230E) LAMONTE YOUNG
Comp. 60 # 7 cont. ?61, Maput 49?s Dream for 2 Systems of 11 Sets at Galactic Intervals ?66, Big Band Lower Map of the 11th Div. ?66, Soundtone Installation #27, 1972. (90 min.)

(0230F) LAMONTE YOUNG
Day of Gammedean ?64, Well Tuned Chimes ?81, Poppy Nogood and the Phantom Band, A Rainbow In Curved Air ?69. (90 min.)

(0230G) LAMONTE YOUNG - The Well Tuned Piano Vol. 1 ?87 (60 min.)

(0230H) LAMONTE YOUNG - The Well Tuned Piano Vol. 2 ?87 (60 min.)

(0230I) LAMONTE YOUNG - The Well Tuned Piano Vol. 3 ?87 (60 min.)

(0230J) LAMONTE YOUNG - The Well Tuned Piano Vol. 4 ?87 (60 min.)

(0230M) LAMONTE YOUNG - The Well Tuned Piano Vol. 5 ?87 (60 min.)

(0230K) LAMONTE YOUNG
Kronos Krystalis ?90 per. Kronos Quartet. (60 min.)

(0230L) LAMONTE YOUNG
Young Dorian Blues ?91 (60 min.)

(0230M) LAMONTE YOUNG
Ever Young Blues Band Vol. 1 ?94 (60 min.)

(0230N) LAMONTE YOUNG
Ever Young Blues Band Vol. 2 ?94 (60 min.)

Video: (Videos are $25)

(0081A) THE VELVET UNDERGROUND VOL. 1 - UK DOCUMENTARY

(0081N) THE VELVET UNDERGROUND VOL. 2
Symphony of Sound and Moe in Bondage at the Factory 1966.

(0081O) THE VELVET UNDERGROUND VOL. 3
Psychiatrist Convention and E.P.I. at the Dom 1966 plus Spanish documentary (in English).

(0081P) THE VELVET UNDERGROUND VOL. 4 - PARIS ?90

(0081Q) THE VELVET UNDERGROUND VOL. 5 - ?93 EUROPEAN TOUR DOCUMENTARY

(0081R) THE VELVET UNDERGROUND VOL. 6
E.P.I. ?66 R. Namath film of Chicago ?66 with J. Cale, S. Morrison, M. Tucker, A. MacLise and CHUMLUM - Ron Rice film ?64 with A. MacLise soundtrack.

(0081) NICO VOL. 1- (A) - LIVE IN VIENNA ?87

(0018U) NICO VOL. 2 - LIVE IN DUSSELDORF

(0018V) NICO VOL. 3 - LIVE IN PRAGUE

(0018W) NICO VOL. 4 - LIVE IN TOKYO

(0018X) NICO VOL. 5 - SPANISH DOCUMENTARY

Chance, I'll not ask how you came accross that site! The email address isn't recognised from my Outlook Express. I am interested in The Cleveland Music Hall cassette - does anyone have this who would like to do a trade copy?

That Cleveland Music Hall listing is almost definately mislabelled. Olivier's site doesn't show an October '68 gig there, and I don't think there are any circulating tapes of any CMH gigs. They did play at La Cave in Cleveland in Oct. '68. Those shows are available on the "Problems In Urban Living" bootleg. That's gotta be whats on the tape.

The Colombus '66 gig also seems to be misidentified as Cleveland.

I don't know, the site may be defunct by now and it's just dead weight on the Web. I never tried to contact them. I think I found it years ago just by checking search engines for Velvet bootlegs. Somebody at some point told me that the stuff they offered was available in better quality elsewhere.

i'm gonna try contact 'em anyhow (post): it's a pretty dark archive, and maybe i'm not sure about some of the content...i'm after one of the la monte young / conrad / cale tapes...maybe i'll get a P.O. Box for return...i'll keep you posted as to whether i get a response or not...

This from OL's 1969 gig list

October 1969
Music Hall, Cleveland, Ohio
It is almost certain that this date is wrong (no evidence of an appearance in Cleveland on October 1969 has been found in The Plain Dealer archives). The tape which circulates under this pretense is the one that is also available as "30/11/1968" minus I'm Set Free.

Tape: audience, C, 40 mins.

Heroin
What Goes On
Waiting For The Man
Pale Blue Eyes
Sister Ray

Not exactly concrete evidence of something rare but............

Re: Chance's post above... These guys are located in my neck of the woods.

AES-NIHIL PRODUCTIONS
7210 Jordan Avenue, No. B-41
Canoga Park, CA 91303 USA
(818)-905-4635

I think I'm going to order something from them this weekend. I'll try to let everyone know what the product /service is like.

Well, I don't think these guys are in business anymore. Their phone is disconnected and there is no forwarding number.