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Re: VU live bests
Posted: 10 Nov 2022 01:28
by Mark
I don't know where it was recorded (although I've always assumed Dom April 66 because of the Mekas film). However a bit of that instrumental can be heard playing between songs on one of the versions of the Valleydale Ballroom bootleg, so it must be before November 1966.
Re: VU live bests
Posted: 10 Nov 2022 07:53
by Kill Mick
My understanding from various sources - inc. Olivier's website and Unterberger's book - was always that the film was from the Psychiatrists Convention in Jan 66 and the soundtrack from the Open Stage aka The Dom in April 66, and was used simply because for whatever reason the film had no sound. Given the difference in sound/quality between I'll Be Your Mirror and 'Chic Mystique' they could well be from different recordings, though potentially from the same venue and time period.
Re: VU live bests
Posted: 21 Dec 2022 04:10
by Sheila Klein
I haven't forgotten this project, but have found that selection of a single favorite of some of the nominated versions is harder than anticipated: this version, for instance, might have great band dynamics but that one a more intense lead vocal. I'll keep listening though, with the hope that at some point the answers will become clearer.
In the meantime I've been listening to various versions of "Ocean," each of which also has much to speak for it. I've found six, including a brief excerpt of one from Joseph Freeman's Max's recording:
live:
End Of Cole Ave. (2nd night)
Matrix
Max's (portion)
studio:
3rd album, super-deluxe version (et al); referred to there as "orig. 1969 mix"
Fully Loaded, disc 1 tr. 12; referred to there as "outtake"
Fully Loaded, disc 2 tr. 11; referred to there as "demo"
Are there other known versions? Are any of those in circulation?
I'd like to mention my hunch that the song was inspired by the death of Danny Williams. Any thoughts on that?
Re: VU live bests
Posted: 21 Dec 2022 11:51
by iaredatsun
Sheila Klein wrote: ↑21 Dec 2022 04:10
I haven't forgotten this project, but have found that selection of a single favorite of some of the nominated versions is harder than anticipated: this version, for instance, might have great band dynamics but that one a more intense lead vocal. I'll keep listening though, with the hope that at some point the answers will become clearer.
In the meantime I've been listening to various versions of "Ocean," each of which also has much to speak for it. I've found six, including a brief excerpt of one from Joseph Freeman's Max's recording:
live:
End Of Cole Ave. (2nd night)
Matrix
Max's (portion)
studio:
3rd album, super-deluxe version (et al); referred to there as "orig. 1969 mix"
Fully Loaded, disc 1 tr. 12; referred to there as "outtake"
Fully Loaded, disc 2 tr. 11; referred to there as "demo"
Are there other known versions? Are any of those in circulation?
I'd like to mention my hunch that the song was inspired by the death of Danny Williams. Any thoughts on that?
Isn't there a version with Cale - long before him on the Loaded session? Or have a imagined this?
Anyway there seems to be an unreleased demo on this 69 tape
https://digitalcollections.nypl.org/ite ... 0c7fe248d6
Here we go 67/68 with Cale
https://digitalcollections.nypl.org/ite ... 75102d0977
> Danny Williams
I'm not really getting this. I guess it's possible. It sounds a bit of a slim connection. He died in 66. What was the date of the demo version?
Re: VU live bests
Posted: 21 Dec 2022 20:40
by peppergomez
My understanding is that they were playing it during the summer and fall of 68 with with Cale but that they didn't record it and unfortunately there are no live recordings of them during that era circulating
Re: VU live bests
Posted: 21 Dec 2022 22:13
by iaredatsun
peppergomez wrote: ↑21 Dec 2022 20:40
My understanding is that they were playing it during the summer and fall of 68 with with Cale but that they didn't record it and unfortunately there are no live recordings of them during that era circulating
But there is a demo/rehearsal recording from somewhere around that point time.
Re: VU live bests
Posted: 21 Dec 2022 23:21
by hkmartin
iaredatsun wrote: ↑21 Dec 2022 22:13
peppergomez wrote: ↑21 Dec 2022 20:40
My understanding is that they were playing it during the summer and fall of 68 with with Cale but that they didn't record it and unfortunately there are no live recordings of them during that era circulating
But there is a demo/rehearsal recording from somewhere around that point time.
There are some interesting (non-circulating) rehersals of Ocean in the NYPL archives.
https://archives.nypl.org/mus/24078#c1552811
See 560543 and 560546
Re: VU live bests
Posted: 22 Dec 2022 02:32
by Sheila Klein
I'm not really getting this. I guess it's possible. It sounds a bit of a slim connection. He died in 66. What was the date of the demo version
Are you saying that artists can only be inspired by immediately recent events?
Re: VU live bests
Posted: 22 Dec 2022 05:21
by falconwhit
For what it's worth, the thought has crossed my mind that the song may have been connected - at least partially - to Danny Williams
Re: VU live bests
Posted: 22 Dec 2022 05:51
by iaredatsun
Sheila Klein wrote: ↑22 Dec 2022 02:32
I'm not really getting this. I guess it's possible. It sounds a bit of a slim connection. He died in 66. What was the date of the demo version
Are you saying that artists can only be inspired by immediately recent events?
No. The link just feels a bit tenuous to me. But anything is possible.