Sunday Morning

[falconwhit]

They used overdubs on the first lp, and certainly for Sunday Morning. Mayfair was a 8-track studio.

[MartinVU]

Thanks, I will listen again. Do you think it's a single viola track, or several?

Hard to say for sure, but I'm guessing it's one track. The viola is easiest to hear towards the end and maybe it's a bit clearer (as in more dry signal) then as well so could be that there's two tracks of it with different effect settings.. but I can't rule out that there's something else there as well (organ would be my guess but I don't think there's any organ on the album?). If you run it through one of those isolation programs and remove the celeste, bass and vocals you could turn up the rest and maybe figure it out.

My guess would be that John plays celeste, viola and piano, while Sterling handles the bass and plays the guitar "solo". That would leave Lou playing nothing though (he could be playing the piano of course). Considering that they supposedly played it live before recording it and the celeste only came into the picture in the studio, I would assume there were some rhythm guitar on it as well. My guess would be that they recorded a guitar track and then decided not to use it or buried it very deep in the mix.

[iaredatsun]

I still think it could be guitar. It sounds a bit ‘jangly’ to my ears.

[MartinVU]

Found this instrumental version: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FVsMsDp ... EC&index=3

Around 0:32 I actually hear a guitar play a few jangly notes, and happens again a few other times so I guess it's there deep in the mix the whole time (unless it's some kind of artifact from the isolation process). The viola is also much easier to hear (not so "subliminal" as Unterberger calls it).

[falconwhit]

I think I hear what you mean - it *might indeed be a ghost guitar, but could also be an artifact. Or I could be hallucinating.

I am pretty sure this was an 8-track recording, and assume these were the tracks:

1: drums
2: bass
3: celesta
4: guitar solo
5: viola (since this seems to be the consensus)
6: piano
7: lead vocals
8: one remaining track: possibly a guide (or ghost) guitar ? and/or Nico's background vocals at the end ?

[camforrester]

Lou and Sterling are both playing guitar; Lou's Gretsch is the darker of the two guitars and Sterling is playing the brighter one (probably his Gibson Les Paul [SG] or Vox Phantom, which would have been an overdub, as he plays bass on the main track), but they're difficult to separate as the dry signal is completely off - you're only hearing the wet return of the chamber reverb, and even that is incredibly low in the mix.
They were trying to replicate the Phil Spector 'wall of sound' effect, where all the sounds blend together into one - that's why everything sounds like everything was recorded from a microphone down a long hallway, or in the next room.

When I made my cover version a couple of years ago, I tried to replicate the mix as best I could using the equipment I have, but listening again just now, I had the Sterling guitar part too low (it's barely audible beneath the Lou guitar part), but by hearing the Lou guitar part a little clearer in my version, it might be made easier for you to hear the chord voicings, and where it sits in the mix of the original version, and then you will be able to separate/hear Sterling's part jangling over the top of it.
Also Lou takes the solo, and there is definitely Viola in the background; possibly throughout, but definitely towards the end (I played the melody with a viola sample on my Nord Electro), and of course Nico's backing vocals, replicated by Caroline Dawson in my cover.

https://youtu.be/NamM_UdXA94?si=jQG9s1hK2b2-ara0

[falconwhit]

Thanks Cam - your argument for the reverby bed playing throughout the song being one (or two) guitar(s) and not a viola is compelling in that it doesn't sound like Cale - there is no vibrato or notes sliding into place. But I still can't figure out what the guitars play - maybe a combination of chord and arpeggio?
If there are indeed two guitars, I assume Sterl overdubbed the bass.
The mix session for this must have been quite a performance.

So maybe something like this?
1) drums
2) bass
3) celesta
4) piano
5) lead voc
6) guitar solo / Nico bv
7) viola
8) guitar(s)

[MartinVU]

Thanks for the input, Cam! Did you figure this out by listening (and isolating tracks?) or did find any sources about how it was recorded? I've looked for the latter but without success.

[camforrester]

No worries guys!

MartinVU:
Yes, all through listening - I still find it incredible how us fans of so many years, continue to listen closer, and closer...and hear things in the music that we never noticed before (especially since the 45th anniversary remasters).
The only information that I read about the recording, was a comment of John's, about their deliberate attempt to recreate the Phil Spector thing (which I think was at the suggestion of Tom Wilson, who wanted the band to have a Christmas hit with Nico).

Falconwhit:
Listening again, I'm quite certain I can actually hear the viola throughout; John was just playing sustained notes at lower volume - blending with the guitars - until the point where Lou's overdubbed solo comes in, at which point he is essentially plays a counter-solo underneath.
One thing I also hadn't paid too much attention to before is how much low-end Moe's cymbal has - when she first starts playing, it sounds like there is some other metallic noise, like a gong it something. Notice how it's the only track on the album where her kit is way up front in the mix (if only in the left channel, in the case of the Stereo version).
I'll try to make a quick recording with exaggerated panning to demonstrate (as I didn't get the parts/mix exactly right in my previous cover), and see what you think!

[falconwhit]

Thanks Cam.

What is driving me nuts is that, while every VU song can easily be decoded (i.e. who played what), I haven't been able to figure out what that one element in Sunday Morning is, aside from the fact that it's the reverb/chamber return signal of "something", and I've been listening to this song for 49 years now.


For the record, I once asked John Cale what Tom Wilson had contributed to the VU's first LP, and he specifically said that it was Tom Wilson's idea to use a celesta for the song.