Loaded 'hack surgery'

MJG196 · Post by **MJG196** » 21 Jan 2005 14:58

What everyone tends to forget is that Lou is quite the revisionist when it comes to his band and solo history. I dont know if it is his sense of dry, sarcastic humor or if he truly believes the stuff he says, but I take it all with several grains of salt.

Keep in mind he definitely liked to edit the final mixes, much to the chagrin of his bandmates. On more than one occasion he completely fucked with the mixes to get his guitar and voice out front and leave Sterl much deeper in the mix. So, for him to leave the Loaded sessions before it was complete was probably a very big sacrifice on his part.

I actually COMPLETELY believe him when he says it was not mixed to his liking. He would have liked to sit alone in the booth with all the tapes before turning the final product in to the record company.

Chance · Post by **Chance** » 21 Jan 2005 15:27

mg196 wrote:Keep in mind he definitely liked to edit the final mixes, much to the chagrin of his bandmates. On more than one occasion he completely fucked with the mixes to get his guitar and voice out front and leave Sterl much deeper in the mix.

Right, which, as Cale has said, is exactly why the plans for a reunion album and US tour fell off the cliff in '93. They didn't want Lou as the only guy at the mixing desk, and he wouldn't relinquish that control.

lurid_uk · Post by **lurid_uk** » 21 Jan 2005 16:02

re Sweet Jane. It's always been my impression that the "wine and roses" section included on "fully loaded" sounded as if it was either a rough guide vocal or a completed vocal which was excised before the "final" mixdown was done. To my ear it sounds less "produced" than the rest of the song. Maybe Lou always intended to go back and tidy it up but left before he had the chance.
He obviously considered that the "missing" section was an integral part of the song, because he always sang it during the 1972/1973 tours with the Tots. He stopped performing it during the late 1973 "Rock and Roll Animal" tour (possible because it didn't easily fit in with the "new" arrangement), and I dont think he's performed it since. In any case, his voice has deteriorated so much that he is probably incapable of performing Sweet Jane in anything like it's original form now.
Has anyone else noticed how he has now rearranged all his songs so that he can "speak" them rather than "sing" them? His last show in London was like a funeral - every song a slow one.

arjan · Post by **arjan** » 21 Jan 2005 16:25

lurid_uk wrote:sounded as if it was either a rough guide vocal or a completed vocal which was excised before the "final" mixdown was done.

Yeah, something strange happens to the guitars as well and the drums' panning changes, too. It looks like the section was salvaged from a early rough mix and flown in later to complete the "full length" Sweet Jane.

lurid_uk wrote:(possible because it didn't easily fit in with the "new" arrangement)

Good point. When I first heard the full-length Sweet Jane, regardless of the relative roughness of the section, I thought it somehow was inappropriate for the new Loaded power arrangement (as opposed to the soft 1969 arrangement). It doesn't fit in. It's like breaking up Crosstown Traffic halfway through to add 8 bars of minor chord weepy but forcefully sung. It doesn't make sense. So, for me, there are two equally valid, totally different approaches to Sweet Jane: 1969/Cowboy Junkies-like, which naturally includes the wine and roses; or Loaded power trio-like, where it is left out.

kkq486x · Post by **kkq486x** » 22 Jan 2005 22:55

Who Loves the Sun, Sweet Jane, Cool It Down, Lonesome Cowboy Bill, I Found a Reason, Head Held High, Train Round The bend, New Age, Rock & Roll, Oh! Sweet Nuthin'
Sequence suggested by Jim Flynn Curtin in M.C Kostek's The Velvet Underground Handbook (1992)

Homme Fatale · Post by **Homme Fatale** » 23 Jan 2005 11:16

kkq486x wrote:Who Loves the Sun, Sweet Jane, Cool It Down, Lonesome Cowboy Bill, I Found a Reason, Head Held High, Train Round The bend, New Age, Rock & Roll, Oh! Sweet Nuthin'
Sequence suggested by Jim Flynn Curtin in M.C Kostek's The Velvet Underground Handbook (1992)

At least it has "I Found a Reason" and "Head Held High" in the CORRECT order! 8)

Mark · Post by **Mark** » 24 Jan 2005 12:04

Interesting... what's Jim's source for this? Or is it just his own suggestion?

Homme Fatale · Post by **Homme Fatale** » 24 Jan 2005 13:52

Mark wrote:Interesting... what's Jim's source for this? Or is it just his own suggestion?

I seem to recall the book contains his personal suggestions for (to him) improved running orders for all the albums... Come to think of it, that may be where I first read about the continuity between IFAR and HHH - haven't read/seen the book in years now.

Mark · Post by **Mark** » 24 Jan 2005 15:56

Cool. He's got one thing right - I'm reliably informed that Doug has said that at one point side 1 was going to close with I Found A Reason, and side 2 was supposed to open with Head Held High.

Homme Fatale · Post by **Homme Fatale** » 24 Jan 2005 16:00

Mark wrote:Cool. He's got one thing right - I'm reliably informed that Doug has said that at one point side 1 was going to close with I Found A Reason, and side 2 was supposed to open with Head Held High.

So THAT's why they end and begin with the same exact vocal harmony!!!

To create a continuity between the two sides. Had it actually been done like that it could've been fixed to run together on CD. 8)