Bowie: Cale or Reed?

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gazatthebop
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Bowie: Cale or Reed?

Post by gazatthebop »

On the Hunky Dory album cover (released Dec 1971) Bowie wrote by "Queen Bitch"..."some v.u. white light returned with thanks"
Who was that comment aimed at Lou Reed or John Cale?. I believe it was for Cale but a friend insists its for Lou.

An interview with Bowie from 1993 has just been re-published in a french magazine, in it Bowie says
""Oddly, it was not really Lou Reed who attracted me to the Velvet. To me, the sound of the band was John Cale. I got confirmation a few years later when I worked with Lou on Transformer. John was the subversive element of the band, one of the most underrated musicians in rock history. That guy is a danger, a true character. I cannot think of anybody more terrifying and dark.. Lou Reed is a choirboy compared to him. In the seventies, we were hanging out together, both in a bad state. As far as I vaguely remember, John liked to flirt with danger. I even remember a knife fight one day... All the legends that circulate about Keith Richards, John lived them from the inside. We worked together at the end of the seventies for a festival at the Brooklyn Academy of Music. Philip Glass, Steve Reich and John Cale were the masters of ceremony and John had asked me to join him for the concert and not to prepare anything. When I arrived backstage 25 minutes before getting on stage, he rapidly played me his tune. I said: "you want me to do some quick lyrics ?". He answered: "you're not here to sing. Take this !". And he handed me an electric viola. Something I had never played before. I was scared to death. " John, I'm gonna make a fool of myself". "Yeah, luckily, that's what's gonna happen !. He just showed me a few notes. Before I even knew, I was on stage with him unaware of what was happening to me. I was playing this viola as fast as possible in order to end this rapidly. A wonderful experience !"

Image
any more clues?
Last edited by gazatthebop on 01 Apr 2013 10:44, edited 1 time in total.
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MJG196
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Re: Bowie: Cale or Reed?

Post by MJG196 »

Hmm..great quote!

However, if it was Cale who Hunky Dory-era Bowie was truly inspired by, then why the hell would he write VU-Lou Reed? Perhaps there is a little revisionism going on, or maybe only with age Bowie made this realization? In either case, sorry bro, I'm with your friend on this.
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gazatthebop
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Re: Bowie: Cale or Reed?

Post by gazatthebop »

I do not think Bowie was inspired by Cale whilst recording Hunky Dory. I do think Bowie is taking the oppertunity to thank Cale for not staying exclusively in his office job at Warners. Bowie is always associated with Reed not Cale, what i am suggesting is Bowie also thought Cale was as important as an artist, maybe more so. Bowie wrote "Queen Bitch" in the style of Lou Reed's writing, after all Lou wrote most of the the lyrics, so it's natural he gets a mention in the advert. The original quote is "some v.u. white light returned with thanks". If the "white light" part is referring to the album WL/WH, that is widely considered Cale's album.
The word "returned" is crucial, if the sleeve notes were written at the latest, a month before Hunky Dory's release, that's November 1971. Who out of the VU had "returned"?. Lou had not released anything after the VU at this point, Cale had returned by issuing "Vintage Violence" in March 1970 and "Church of Anthrax" in February 1971. Lou Reed's eponymous effort was not issued until June 1972. Was Bowie in Lou Reed's inner circle in late 1971 and knew Lou was going to release an album in the summer of 1972?...i very much doubt it.
Sheila Klein
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Re: Bowie: Cale or Reed?

Post by Sheila Klein »

I think the question is a red herring -- I've always interpreted the line on the "Hunky Dory" sleeve to be a mark of appreciation for the VU in general; for their music, as opposed to their personnel.

That said, I've always been curious about the apparent absence of any Cale/Bowie relationship, as musically they seem to be tailor-made for each other. The Bowie interview quote about Cale is illuminating, although it doesn't really explain why, apart from that one fleeting performance, they never worked together in any substantive way.

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peppergomez
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Re: Bowie: Cale or Reed?

Post by peppergomez »

They recorded some demos together in the late 70s, right?
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Re: Bowie: Cale or Reed?

Post by threechordwonder »

peppergomez wrote:They recorded some demos together in the late 70s, right?
Apparently so - "Velvet Couch" and "Piano La".

There is an account of this collaboration, from Cale's side, on Hans' website. It pretty much confirms what Bowie is saying, that is, they partied, and the song featuring Bowie on viola was "Sabotage".
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Re: Bowie: Cale or Reed?

Post by waterisnat »

The word "returned" is crucial, if the sleeve notes were written at the latest, a month before Hunky Dory's release, that's November 1971. Who out of the VU had "returned"?.
I've always understood Bowie's phrase in the sense of "returning the favour".
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Re: Bowie: Cale or Reed?

Post by iaredatsun »

I think Bowie was just acknowledging the debt of chord structure with the Hunky Dory note.

It's more significant that Bowie sings something like 'White Light makes me sound like Lou Reed' when he played WLWH live.

I think the general (and hence maybe also Bowie's) understanding and acceptance of Cale's pivotal role in shaping the VU sound only grew over time. Is there any information that he had even met any of the members of VU on his trip to the factory in '71? His knowledge about roles in the band might have been as sketchy as reading the LP liner notes.

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x7ixb6 ... o_creation
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MJG196
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Re: Bowie: Cale or Reed?

Post by MJG196 »

I found this interview. When Cale is asked about Bowie he almost brushes it off - it starts at 6:10 and peters out before 7:00. Cale...obviously speeding on something...is SUPER talkative and is very, very open. I have never seen this interviewer, but Jonathan Richman and Cale seem to feel very relaxed and enjoying the moment. Dig that shirt, man!

(Why can't we embed videos here?!)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4W6af7Cj05I
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iaredatsun
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Re: Bowie: Cale or Reed?

Post by iaredatsun »

MJG196 wrote:I found this interview. When Cale is asked about Bowie he almost brushes it off - it starts at 6:10 and peters out before 7:00. Cale...obviously speeding on something...is SUPER talkative and is very, very open. I have never seen this interviewer, but Jonathan Richman and Cale seem to feel very relaxed and enjoying the moment. Dig that shirt, man!

(Why can't we embed videos here?!)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4W6af7Cj05I
I loved that interview, mjg, thanks. Cale is a great interviewee - I could watch/listen to him again and again. Very personable. Agree about the shirt!

I think that one's been deleted but a shorter section appears at 5:05 in this Best of After Dark clip...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jaC6ZurKHFU
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