Hy Weiss and the writing of "Foggy Notion"

[Sheila Klein]

I just about swallowed my tongue when I noticed, in the book accompanying the new release of the 3rd album, the writing credit for "Foggy Notion", which reads:

Sterling Morrison
Maureen Tucker
Douglas Yule
Hy Weiss

WTH?! As far as I know this is the only VU song with a writing credit that does not include Lou Reed; or, at least, one that does include a non-group member. But, of all people to be credited with co-writing a VU song, why/how Hy Weiss?!

Weiss's main position in the record industry was as owner of the doo-wop label Old Town, but he was renowned, within this slimiest of industries, as the slimiest of the slimy. I think it's safe to assume that he was not actually involved in the writing of the song, but I know of no business situation the VU was ever in that would've brought them within range of his grasp, so how does ... ?

Or perhaps I am too quick to dismiss Weiss as a co-writer of the song. He did moonlight as a hotshot (albeit relatively superannuated) drummer in the underground clubs of the city



and it's possible that, at a moment when Moe was unavailable for a rehearsal session ... No, that doesn't work, as her name is on the song too. Could Weiss have filled in for Lou at a rehearsal, one in which an impromptu jam led to the creation of "Foggy Notion"? I'm so baffled by this situation that I can't completely rule it out. One other possibility lies in the formal rendering of Doug Yule's name in the writing credit, while Weiss, whose given name was "Hyman", is rendered only as "Hy" Weiss; thus, perhaps it was a different Hy Weiss.

I don't know. Perhaps someone else does. Can Alfredo pose the question to Bill Levenson, who is in the best position to know? It's the strangest writing credit for a VU song by far, and I'd sure as hell like to know how it came to be.

--Phil M.

[MJG196]

This was discussed about 10 years ago (!!!) in this thread: http://www.velvetforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=178

And there is a link in there that has the following:

CM writes: "My memory is vague - apologies - but I read an interview with either Doug or Sterling where they were asked about Foggy Notion. In reply they said - something like - 'oh that one, we just used to do that to fill up time in the set, it was a throwaway, it even had a bit of some old song in it'. It seems likely that Hy Weiss was the writer of the old song they borrowed from."

Well, CM, you're completely correct! After months of backbreaking research -- well, okay, months of pretending to care -- we've finally solved this mystery. Hy Weiss wrote, all by himself, without any other credits, a song called "Foggy Notion" and registered it with BMI. The VU version was registered soon after.

So what we have here is, essentially, another cover song. We haven't been able to find ANY recordings of Weiss's version of the song, but for the band to have heard it there is presumably at least one version recorded somewhere. Anybody have an extensive jazz collection???

This also still doesn't solve the fact that Lou has no credit and the lyrics seem to be completely Reed's, but at least we're partly home.

[iaredatsun]

Foggy Notion in the BMI db lists Reed as one of five composers along with Hy Weiss:

http://repertoire.bmi.com/title.asp?bln ... INE=WorkID

Hy Weiss wrote many songs and second song called Foggy Notion is amongst them.
http://repertoire.bmi.com/title.asp?bln ... INE=WorkID

Didn't we cover this a few months ago? Someone here suggested the scenario that Weiss demanded credit and so perhaps Reed wanted his name removed.

[Sheila Klein]

How interesting, thanks a lot for digging that out. I reckon Weiss must've heard the bootlegged-only "Foggy Notion" during his club drumming days, sussed out a snatch of one of his tunes within it, and was ready to pounce the second it hit the market officially. He might've been slimy, but he wuzn't dumb.

Perhaps Lou had his own credit removed from the song out of disgust at the way the thing unfolded. Or maybe he was still pissed at Weiss for not signing The Jades back in '58.

[searchin4mymainline]

This was discussed about 10 years ago (!!!) in this thread: http://www.velvetforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=178

Picking up on a few things from that thread, I've discovered I have a copy of the 2002 Lou Reed "New York City Boy" radio interview with John Holmstrom, where Lou Reed talks about getting sued for Foggy Notion. Lou does say in the interview that the song Foggy Notion quotes from is "At My Front Door" by the El Dorados, but I can't see how it can be! He talks about getting his revenge when A Tribe Called Quest sampled "Walk On The Wild Side" without asking him. Googling suggests that the connection ATCQ have with Hy Weiss is through his son Barry Weiss.

Lou also says in the interview that "No one ever meant to release Foggy Notion. It was just a jam...", which I think means every band member involved in the recording has, at one time or another, said something to the effect that it was not intended for a fourth album.

FWIW my UK vinyl copy of VU, bought on the day of release has the label credit: "All songs written by Lou Reed."

[Sheila Klein]

... where Lou Reed talks about getting sued for Foggy Notion. Lou does say in the interview that the song Foggy Notion quotes from is "At My Front Door" by the El Dorados ...

That's funny, as if anything it'd be "Sister Ray" that "At My Front Door" was infringed by. After all, the key line in that song is "... knockin' at my front door".

(And Hy Weiss, by the way, had nothing to do with the ownership of it.)

[searchin4mymainline]

A post in the old thread suggests that Lou might have actually meant Bim Bam Boom by the El Dorados. At least that seems to have slightly more of a resemblance to Foggy Notion, but still not that much I wouldn't have said, and it isn't credited to Weiss either.

[Wick Pick]

He doesn't include it in his book of lyrics, Pass Thru Fire, which always had me wondering. Though he does exclude a couple others too like Coney Island Steeplechase. Pretty sure it's his lyric anyway.

[Sheila Klein]

Pretty sure it's his lyric anyway.

Good point. It sure doesn't seem like anything Moe, Doug or Sterl would've written. Hy Weiss maybe, but it's a stretch.

[Kill Mick]

I always thought it was the "Sally Mae" refrain that was to do with Weiss?